5 ms·

There is certainly shared responsibility from the student(s), and from the parents, but this also highlights a systemic breakdown in so many areas. A person sho

by m8s 6y ago

There is certainly shared responsibility from the student(s), and from the parents, but this also highlights a systemic breakdown in so many areas. A person should not need three jobs to support their family. Schools should have the necessary resources to help failing students. I could go on, but this whole thing just stinks.

viklove 6y ago
Probably an unpopular opinion, but if you're working multiple jobs you probably shouldn't go and have 3 children...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- oarsinsync 6y ago
  To turn that position around, what is the appropriate number of jobs to have for someone with three children?
  - viklove 6y ago
    It's not so much about the number of jobs, but about the hours you're working. A single parent working 80+ hours a week can't raise 3 children without paid help. Even if there are two parents, they need to allocate time to mentor their children through life. If you don't have enough time to raise your children properly, that's 100% on you. Having children is a choice, and the costs of that choice should not be imposed on society at large.
    - nkrisc 6y ago
      > and the costs of that choice should not be imposed on society at large. Why not? Why do you accept that as truth? What's the alternative? There's no point in arguing what she should have done because we can't change the past, she's here with three kids, so what do we do now? Just let them rot or help them out? I mean I suppose we could just murder all poor people and be done with it, but that's not really a society I want to be a part of. When you see someone trip and fall, do you get down and tell them they should have watched where they were walking then kick them in the ribs before you walk off?
      - viklove 6y ago
        > There's no point in arguing what she should have done because we can't change the past There is, so we can prevent the next person from making the same mistake.
        nkrisc 6y ago
        But what about the previous person who made the mistake? They're still around and real, they're not some hypothetical.
        viklove 6y ago
        I never said you shouldn't help them, why are you erecting this strawman? I'm just saying that while you help them, don't forget that you can prevent people from ending up in that situation. You can't save a sinking ship with a bucket alone. You have to plug the leak.
    - oarsinsync 6y ago
      > Having children is a choice, and the costs of that choice should not be imposed on society at large. So you’re opposed to parents who take whatever work they can get in order to support their families. By your previous statement, you’re probably also against welfare, as that also externalises the costs. It sounds like you’re against the idea that people should be allowed to procreate unless they’re rich?
      - viklove 6y ago
        I never said I was against welfare, nice slander though! I actually support a UBI. I just also think you shouldn't make decisions that you can't financially support, at any time.
    - brailsafe 6y ago
      Choice is a pretty loaded term the way you're using it. If I chose to have sex with whats regarded as very good protection and birth control, and I still get pregnant, did I opt in to having them or are they an unlikely product of a different but related choice? Is it just 100% on me if the support structure I rely on to raise the kids I did opt in to having crumbles for some reason? With a charitable outlook, it doesn't take much to see how a mother of 3 with 3 jobs is doing the best they can, and to get down on them seems petty. I'm part of society, impose some of those costs on me. That's what society is for, at least the small "l" liberal kind of society I'd prefer to live in. That's of course not to say that there aren't genuinely awful people and parents out there, but often they're not spending every waking hour working to support their kids, with little to nothing remaining after bills are paid.
      - viklove 6y ago
        > If I chose to have sex with whats regarded as very good protection and birth control, and I still get pregnant Are you saying that's the most likely case here?
- Frondo 6y ago
  We don't know the circumstances of someone working three jobs with three children - maybe they had a good job, maybe they were married to someone who also had a good job, maybe life was going swimmingly until someone in their family got cancer and bankrupted them or their spouse died or their employer closed and down and because it's Baltimore it was tough to find another decent job. Better to figure out how we can support these people so that their lives aren't filled with such abject suffering than to say "they (retroactively) shouldn't have kids."
  - viklove 6y ago
    > Better to figure out how we can support these people Yes, by supplying them with adequate family planning education and free access to contraceptives so they understand the risk and burden of parenthood before inflicting it upon themselves.
    - colejohnson66 6y ago
      Even if those were available, if their situation was good at the time before it went to shit, access to that stuff won’t help. Because the kid already exists. You can’t contraceptive your way out of a toddler.
    - m8s 6y ago
      I agree, I'd love for this to not happen in the future. Let's provide extensive family planning education, those are excellent ideas. Let's also help those that have been left behind though. We have the ability to help everyone.
- nkrisc 6y ago
  Well she's already got the kids, so what's she supposed to do? Drop them off at the work house since she can't care for them? It seems some would rather admonish her for whatever choices she's made and then not offer any help. What's the point of a society if we don't help one another?

by m8s 6y ago

viklove 6y ago

Probably an unpopular opinion, but if you're working multiple jobs you probably shouldn't go and have 3 children...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
oarsinsync 6y ago
To turn that position around, what is the appropriate number of jobs to have for someone with three children?
- viklove 6y ago
  It's not so much about the number of jobs, but about the hours you're working. A single parent working 80+ hours a week can't raise 3 children without paid help. Even if there are two parents, they need to allocate time to mentor their children through life. If you don't have enough time to raise your children properly, that's 100% on you. Having children is a choice, and the costs of that choice should not be imposed on society at large.
  - nkrisc 6y ago
    > and the costs of that choice should not be imposed on society at large. Why not? Why do you accept that as truth? What's the alternative? There's no point in arguing what she should have done because we can't change the past, she's here with three kids, so what do we do now? Just let them rot or help them out? I mean I suppose we could just murder all poor people and be done with it, but that's not really a society I want to be a part of. When you see someone trip and fall, do you get down and tell them they should have watched where they were walking then kick them in the ribs before you walk off?
    - viklove 6y ago
      > There's no point in arguing what she should have done because we can't change the past There is, so we can prevent the next person from making the same mistake.
      - nkrisc 6y ago
        But what about the previous person who made the mistake? They're still around and real, they're not some hypothetical.
        viklove 6y ago
        I never said you shouldn't help them, why are you erecting this strawman? I'm just saying that while you help them, don't forget that you can prevent people from ending up in that situation. You can't save a sinking ship with a bucket alone. You have to plug the leak.
  - oarsinsync 6y ago
    > Having children is a choice, and the costs of that choice should not be imposed on society at large. So you’re opposed to parents who take whatever work they can get in order to support their families. By your previous statement, you’re probably also against welfare, as that also externalises the costs. It sounds like you’re against the idea that people should be allowed to procreate unless they’re rich?
    - viklove 6y ago
      I never said I was against welfare, nice slander though! I actually support a UBI. I just also think you shouldn't make decisions that you can't financially support, at any time.
  - brailsafe 6y ago
    Choice is a pretty loaded term the way you're using it. If I chose to have sex with whats regarded as very good protection and birth control, and I still get pregnant, did I opt in to having them or are they an unlikely product of a different but related choice? Is it just 100% on me if the support structure I rely on to raise the kids I did opt in to having crumbles for some reason? With a charitable outlook, it doesn't take much to see how a mother of 3 with 3 jobs is doing the best they can, and to get down on them seems petty. I'm part of society, impose some of those costs on me. That's what society is for, at least the small "l" liberal kind of society I'd prefer to live in. That's of course not to say that there aren't genuinely awful people and parents out there, but often they're not spending every waking hour working to support their kids, with little to nothing remaining after bills are paid.
    - viklove 6y ago
      > If I chose to have sex with whats regarded as very good protection and birth control, and I still get pregnant Are you saying that's the most likely case here?
Frondo 6y ago
We don't know the circumstances of someone working three jobs with three children - maybe they had a good job, maybe they were married to someone who also had a good job, maybe life was going swimmingly until someone in their family got cancer and bankrupted them or their spouse died or their employer closed and down and because it's Baltimore it was tough to find another decent job. Better to figure out how we can support these people so that their lives aren't filled with such abject suffering than to say "they (retroactively) shouldn't have kids."
- viklove 6y ago
  > Better to figure out how we can support these people Yes, by supplying them with adequate family planning education and free access to contraceptives so they understand the risk and burden of parenthood before inflicting it upon themselves.
  - colejohnson66 6y ago
    Even if those were available, if their situation was good at the time before it went to shit, access to that stuff won’t help. Because the kid already exists. You can’t contraceptive your way out of a toddler.
  - m8s 6y ago
    I agree, I'd love for this to not happen in the future. Let's provide extensive family planning education, those are excellent ideas. Let's also help those that have been left behind though. We have the ability to help everyone.
nkrisc 6y ago
Well she's already got the kids, so what's she supposed to do? Drop them off at the work house since she can't care for them? It seems some would rather admonish her for whatever choices she's made and then not offer any help. What's the point of a society if we don't help one another?