3 ms·

I've known any number of Baltimore schoolteachers. Hell, I used to drink for free thanks to some of them, on account of going to the same bar some days after wo

I've known any number of Baltimore schoolteachers. Hell, I used to drink for free thanks to some of them, on account of going to the same bar some days after work and being pretty good at Jeopardy. One I was acquainted with for something like a decade. They're no less likely to be good, dedicated people than those in any other profession - if anything, given the conditions they have to work with, probably somewhat more so. I'd find it difficult to say what exactly is the problem with Baltimore schools generally, especially in the face of a lot of people who've seen The Wire, know nothing else about my town, and yet somehow feel themselves qualified to dissect it anyway - that's not a shot at HN particularly, that's just what happens when Baltimore comes up for discussion anywhere that isn't Baltimore. But I can tell you what, and who, the problem isn't - I can, and I just did.

specialp 6y ago
The problem isn't just the schools, it is the endless cycle of poverty and lack of mobility. For many of these students, school is the least of their concern. Just having food to eat or staying safe is hard. Combined with high single parent rates which is very hard, and just nobody to look up to. Schooling can only get you so far. Many of these kids need help outside of school with mentorship and staying out of crushing poverty. Otherwise they really don't have a chance even with the very best of schooling. I have no doubt that it is very difficult for these teachers. We try to quantify "failing schools" with standardized testing but that is not taking into account the students going into it. Then for the teachers working there they are demoralized and have a tough job as it is. I am not saying the schools are blameless but this is a more multifaceted and systematic problem than underperforming schools.
- hc-taway 6y ago
  This is pretty much spot on. A common pithy complaint about US schools is that they're funded by property taxes, so it must be all that extra money the nice suburban schools get that makes them successful. Unfortunately, that's completely wrong. The worst-of-the-worst schools, especially in cities (maybe also out in the sticks, I have less visibility into that) get tons of extra money (state, feds, non-profit grants, et c.), such that they're not-uncommonly spending more per student than their "rich" counterparts, paying their teachers more, and so on. The reason that's so unfortunate is because if funding failing schools equally to "good" schools, or even somewhat better than them, made meaningful progress to solving the problem, that'd be a relatively easy thing to do. It turns out, instead, that any actually-helpful approach to fixing US schools amounts to "solve poverty". That's a much bigger problem, is much more expensive, is much more complex, and is far harder to sell, politically. One finds oneself immediately in the weeds of trying to fix US labor relations, wealth inequality, and our social safety net. But that's what has to be done to really fix the problems with our schools. Everything short of that is just a show put on so it looks like "we're doing something about it". [EDIT] instead of down-votes I'd love a pointer to a more tractable solution than "solve poverty", but everything I've seen so far indicates that's the only thing that's gonna work and that the wonderfully simple solution of "fund schools equally" has little or no effect. AFAIK the only thing we've tried that even kinda worked was so-called "bussing", but that was so wildly unpopular (and not just among the people you'd expect to have hated it) that I can't imagine anyone having the guts to propose it again.
cyberlurker 6y ago
I agree completely. I know so many teachers across the country who are so dedicated and hard working, even in some of the worst performing schools. I’ve heard some be described as martyrs and I can’t disagree. I can’t make an absolute statement about every teacher or every school. I’m sure somewhere, some are bad. But at this point I am very sensitive to blaming the teachers. I don’t think they are the problem. Anecdotally, I’ve found teachers who transition to tech/info security to be amazing as well. Super organized, hard working, and great interpersonal skills. Seriously, if you can give a former teacher a chance at your organization do so.

specialp 6y ago

The problem isn't just the schools, it is the endless cycle of poverty and lack of mobility. For many of these students, school is the least of their concern. Just having food to eat or staying safe is hard. Combined with high single parent rates which is very hard, and just nobody to look up to. Schooling can only get you so far. Many of these kids need help outside of school with mentorship and staying out of crushing poverty. Otherwise they really don't have a chance even with the very best of schooling. I have no doubt that it is very difficult for these teachers. We try to quantify "failing schools" with standardized testing but that is not taking into account the students going into it. Then for the teachers working there they are demoralized and have a tough job as it is. I am not saying the schools are blameless but this is a more multifaceted and systematic problem than underperforming schools.

hc-taway 6y ago
This is pretty much spot on. A common pithy complaint about US schools is that they're funded by property taxes, so it must be all that extra money the nice suburban schools get that makes them successful. Unfortunately, that's completely wrong. The worst-of-the-worst schools, especially in cities (maybe also out in the sticks, I have less visibility into that) get tons of extra money (state, feds, non-profit grants, et c.), such that they're not-uncommonly spending more per student than their "rich" counterparts, paying their teachers more, and so on. The reason that's so unfortunate is because if funding failing schools equally to "good" schools, or even somewhat better than them, made meaningful progress to solving the problem, that'd be a relatively easy thing to do. It turns out, instead, that any actually-helpful approach to fixing US schools amounts to "solve poverty". That's a much bigger problem, is much more expensive, is much more complex, and is far harder to sell, politically. One finds oneself immediately in the weeds of trying to fix US labor relations, wealth inequality, and our social safety net. But that's what has to be done to really fix the problems with our schools. Everything short of that is just a show put on so it looks like "we're doing something about it". [EDIT] instead of down-votes I'd love a pointer to a more tractable solution than "solve poverty", but everything I've seen so far indicates that's the only thing that's gonna work and that the wonderfully simple solution of "fund schools equally" has little or no effect. AFAIK the only thing we've tried that even kinda worked was so-called "bussing", but that was so wildly unpopular (and not just among the people you'd expect to have hated it) that I can't imagine anyone having the guts to propose it again.

cyberlurker 6y ago

I agree completely. I know so many teachers across the country who are so dedicated and hard working, even in some of the worst performing schools. I’ve heard some be described as martyrs and I can’t disagree. I can’t make an absolute statement about every teacher or every school. I’m sure somewhere, some are bad. But at this point I am very sensitive to blaming the teachers. I don’t think they are the problem. Anecdotally, I’ve found teachers who transition to tech/info security to be amazing as well. Super organized, hard working, and great interpersonal skills. Seriously, if you can give a former teacher a chance at your organization do so.