28 ms·

I define rape as when one party does not consent at the time of the act to sex. You can't retroactively remove consent. Fraud is a completely different matter.

tittenfick 6y ago
>You can't retroactively remove consent. Nobody is disagreeing.
harimau777 6y ago
Isn't that the point? If the person lied about the situation then you never consented to the situation that actually happened.
- nobody9999 6y ago
  >Isn't that the point? If the person lied about the situation then you never consented to the situation that actually happened. I smoke cigarettes. I dated someone for a while who didn't want to date/be intimate with a smoker. We had enthusiastic sex for a couple months. Was I raping her because I lied to her? It's clear that she liked me and wanted to have sexual contact with me. However, she didn't want to be in a relationship with a cigarette smoker. I never smoked around her. I tried hard to eliminate any odors, ash or other byproducts of smoking when she was around -- not to perpetuate the lie, but to make her feel comfortable and desired. So I'll ask again, did I repeatedly rape this woman?
  - harimau777 6y ago
    If a reasonable person would have understood that her having sex with you was contingent on you being a non-smoker, then I would argue that yes you did rape her.
- AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago
  No, they consented at that moment with the available information they had. The fact that the information turned out to be false doesn't invalidate the consent they gave. It's just turns out that consent was acquired via fraud. Consent cannot be retroactively revoked. To give an analogy, if I consented to buy a car that advertised 40 mpg but it turns out that it only makes 37 mpg does that mean I was robbed and that I did not consent to buy the car? No, it means I consented to buy a car that fraudulently misstated its fuel efficiency claims. There should be punishment for such fraudulent claims, but it should not be equated to robbery.
  - harimau777 6y ago
    Are you saying that there should be punishment for fraudulently getting consent to sex?
    - AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago
      Absolutely.
wombatmobile 6y ago
How can you dissociate fraud from the concept of consent?
- AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago
  Because fraud is misrepresentation of information. Consent is something you give (regardless of information is factually correct or not). There should be punishment for consent acquired through fraud, but it is not equivalent to acquiring something without consent.

tittenfick 6y ago

>You can't retroactively remove consent. Nobody is disagreeing.

harimau777 6y ago

Isn't that the point? If the person lied about the situation then you never consented to the situation that actually happened.

nobody9999 6y ago
>Isn't that the point? If the person lied about the situation then you never consented to the situation that actually happened. I smoke cigarettes. I dated someone for a while who didn't want to date/be intimate with a smoker. We had enthusiastic sex for a couple months. Was I raping her because I lied to her? It's clear that she liked me and wanted to have sexual contact with me. However, she didn't want to be in a relationship with a cigarette smoker. I never smoked around her. I tried hard to eliminate any odors, ash or other byproducts of smoking when she was around -- not to perpetuate the lie, but to make her feel comfortable and desired. So I'll ask again, did I repeatedly rape this woman?
- harimau777 6y ago
  If a reasonable person would have understood that her having sex with you was contingent on you being a non-smoker, then I would argue that yes you did rape her.
AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago
No, they consented at that moment with the available information they had. The fact that the information turned out to be false doesn't invalidate the consent they gave. It's just turns out that consent was acquired via fraud. Consent cannot be retroactively revoked. To give an analogy, if I consented to buy a car that advertised 40 mpg but it turns out that it only makes 37 mpg does that mean I was robbed and that I did not consent to buy the car? No, it means I consented to buy a car that fraudulently misstated its fuel efficiency claims. There should be punishment for such fraudulent claims, but it should not be equated to robbery.
- harimau777 6y ago
  Are you saying that there should be punishment for fraudulently getting consent to sex?
  - AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago
    Absolutely.

wombatmobile 6y ago

How can you dissociate fraud from the concept of consent?

AzN1337c0d3r 6y ago
Because fraud is misrepresentation of information. Consent is something you give (regardless of information is factually correct or not). There should be punishment for consent acquired through fraud, but it is not equivalent to acquiring something without consent.