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Making life miserable for small business to win some virtue points is one of the bedrock principles for SFBA municipal governments. Its right up there with "ru

by maxcan 6y ago

Making life miserable for small business to win some virtue points is one of the bedrock principles for SFBA municipal governments. Its right up there with "rules for thee and not for me".

eznzt 6y ago
Making the lives of poor people miserable in the name of virtue points is one of the bedrock principles of left-wing governments around the world. For example, European cities banning diesel vehicles.
- octonion 6y ago
  "virtue points" is a meaningless propaganda term.
- ginja 6y ago
  It's funny how everything is a matter of perspective. I'd say that European governments are pretty "center" on average, given that they mostly range from social democracy to liberal conservatism. But anyway, in most medium to large European cities there is little reason to drive. The restrictions on vehicles are overwhelmingly positive for residents' quality of life and the environment.
- snakeboy 6y ago
  > For example, European cities banning diesel vehicles. At least in Paris, poor people are not often the ones driving into Paris for work, they're mostly taking the metro in from the suburbs. Paris has some moderate air pollution problems, often among the worst European or American cities (of course, globally there's much worse), and that effects everyone's quality of life and long-term health in a myriad of ways that we don't fully understand yet, as well as in some obvious ways that we already understand. Of course there's always a bit of political show-boating with these things, and so the French left-wing do this with their pet issues, namely environmental issues. But that show-boating doesn't diminish the tangible positive effects of the policy...
- michelpp 6y ago
  Guess who is physically harmed the most by using two stroke powered lawn equipment? Those same "poor" operators who run it all day every day. What is the upgrade cost vs asthma, cancer, neuropathy, and permanent hearing damage? Even from a completely selfish perspective electric is a no-brainer.
unethical_ban 6y ago
Your comment is way off the mark. You completely ignore the very real environmental and quality-of-life issues with small two-stroke engines and call it virtue points.
- Proziam 6y ago
  Is the threat of overnight destruction for many small businesses a reasonable way to approach this problem? I can easily imagine that not a single person passing this change ever thought about that. Whether it is virtue points or an important issue is irrelevant, the way it was handled was appalling and harmful. EDIT - If you're downvoting consider this: If you and your family were running a small landscaping business and need to replace thousands of dollars of equipment, you might feel differently. Be empathetic towards those people and consider other ways to accomplish the goal. We could just as easily have banned the sale of these after a future date. There are always options to mitigate the pressure on the affected persons.
  - acdha 6y ago
    Your point is undercut by lying about “overnight destruction”. If you read up on this issue, the effect in the real world is that businesses buy electric blowers. A bunch of them started calling it “organic landscaping” and charging more along with dropping chemical fertilizer / pesticide use.
    - Proziam 6y ago
      > If you read up on this issue, the effect in the real world is that businesses buy electric blowers. I wonder, between the two of us, who has spent more time actually making money by doing landscaping. A large portion of these 'businesses' are 1-2 people who scraped together whatever they could to get the equipment to make a living. Many are low income. Many sacrifice heavily in their personal lives to be able to make ends meet. The lie here is the notion that the bunch that go the route of 'organic landscaping' are representative of the entire group.
      - 6y ago
triceratops 6y ago
Why does it make things miserable for businesses? They'll just increase their rates to pay for the new equipment.
anigbrowl 6y ago
This is pure flamebait, attributing malice for its own sake to administrators and dismissing the externalities as 'virtue points' - equivalent to saying you don't care about people who are bothered by noise or heavy gasoline fumes. I'm happy to see changes like this as it's something I've complained about for years; multiple properties in my area used these sort of services, and I'd frequently have to deal with the dust and dirt from their property being blown onto mine, along with noise and bad smells. I also felt bad for the operators who were exposed to that every day. So I am one of those people who has spent years nudging for a regulatory change. Why, exactly, should anyone support a business model that can only be profitable by dumping its weaknesses on to other people? I mean, if you want to use a potentially dangerous product and the risks fall only on you, you have an absolute right to do that. But you have no right to accrue benefits while dumping the risk onto someone else.

by maxcan 6y ago

Making life miserable for small business to win some virtue points is one of the bedrock principles for SFBA municipal governments. Its right up there with "rules for thee and not for me".

eznzt 6y ago

Making the lives of poor people miserable in the name of virtue points is one of the bedrock principles of left-wing governments around the world. For example, European cities banning diesel vehicles.

octonion 6y ago
"virtue points" is a meaningless propaganda term.
ginja 6y ago
It's funny how everything is a matter of perspective. I'd say that European governments are pretty "center" on average, given that they mostly range from social democracy to liberal conservatism. But anyway, in most medium to large European cities there is little reason to drive. The restrictions on vehicles are overwhelmingly positive for residents' quality of life and the environment.
snakeboy 6y ago
> For example, European cities banning diesel vehicles. At least in Paris, poor people are not often the ones driving into Paris for work, they're mostly taking the metro in from the suburbs. Paris has some moderate air pollution problems, often among the worst European or American cities (of course, globally there's much worse), and that effects everyone's quality of life and long-term health in a myriad of ways that we don't fully understand yet, as well as in some obvious ways that we already understand. Of course there's always a bit of political show-boating with these things, and so the French left-wing do this with their pet issues, namely environmental issues. But that show-boating doesn't diminish the tangible positive effects of the policy...
michelpp 6y ago
Guess who is physically harmed the most by using two stroke powered lawn equipment? Those same "poor" operators who run it all day every day. What is the upgrade cost vs asthma, cancer, neuropathy, and permanent hearing damage? Even from a completely selfish perspective electric is a no-brainer.

unethical_ban 6y ago

Your comment is way off the mark. You completely ignore the very real environmental and quality-of-life issues with small two-stroke engines and call it virtue points.

Proziam 6y ago
Is the threat of overnight destruction for many small businesses a reasonable way to approach this problem? I can easily imagine that not a single person passing this change ever thought about that. Whether it is virtue points or an important issue is irrelevant, the way it was handled was appalling and harmful. EDIT - If you're downvoting consider this: If you and your family were running a small landscaping business and need to replace thousands of dollars of equipment, you might feel differently. Be empathetic towards those people and consider other ways to accomplish the goal. We could just as easily have banned the sale of these after a future date. There are always options to mitigate the pressure on the affected persons.
- acdha 6y ago
  Your point is undercut by lying about “overnight destruction”. If you read up on this issue, the effect in the real world is that businesses buy electric blowers. A bunch of them started calling it “organic landscaping” and charging more along with dropping chemical fertilizer / pesticide use.
  - Proziam 6y ago
    > If you read up on this issue, the effect in the real world is that businesses buy electric blowers. I wonder, between the two of us, who has spent more time actually making money by doing landscaping. A large portion of these 'businesses' are 1-2 people who scraped together whatever they could to get the equipment to make a living. Many are low income. Many sacrifice heavily in their personal lives to be able to make ends meet. The lie here is the notion that the bunch that go the route of 'organic landscaping' are representative of the entire group.
    - 6y ago

triceratops 6y ago

Why does it make things miserable for businesses? They'll just increase their rates to pay for the new equipment.

anigbrowl 6y ago

This is pure flamebait, attributing malice for its own sake to administrators and dismissing the externalities as 'virtue points' - equivalent to saying you don't care about people who are bothered by noise or heavy gasoline fumes. I'm happy to see changes like this as it's something I've complained about for years; multiple properties in my area used these sort of services, and I'd frequently have to deal with the dust and dirt from their property being blown onto mine, along with noise and bad smells. I also felt bad for the operators who were exposed to that every day. So I am one of those people who has spent years nudging for a regulatory change. Why, exactly, should anyone support a business model that can only be profitable by dumping its weaknesses on to other people? I mean, if you want to use a potentially dangerous product and the risks fall only on you, you have an absolute right to do that. But you have no right to accrue benefits while dumping the risk onto someone else.