8 ms·

I guess they should go ahead and indict Musk and the rest of crypto Twitter too then.

by chewbaxxa 6y ago

ketamine__ 6y ago
There is still time to indict Musk. It could happen.
- EGreg 6y ago
  Seems it doesn’t matter how long it has been since a sale occurred. https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN28J2UL https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN28J2UL This one in particular would hurt the very investors SEC is supposed to be protecting: https://www.coindesk.com/xrp-untradeable-sec-security?amp=1 https://www.coindesk.com/xrp-untradeable-sec-security?amp=1
  - ketamine__ 6y ago
    So we should let scams continue because it hurts current investors? Sounds very disingenuous.
    - vntok 6y ago
      What scam are you talking about, exactly?
      - ketamine__ 6y ago
        Ripple
tablespoon 6y ago
> I guess they should go ahead and indict Musk and the rest of crypto Twitter too then. Maybe they will, but it'll probably be a few years. This indictment is for activity in 2018. https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/john-david-mcafee-and-executive-adviser-his-cryptocurrency-team-indicted-manhattan https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/john-david-mcafee-and-e...
gzer0 6y ago
This situation is quite different than that of Tesla and Elon Musk. 1. Mcafee was an individual that pumped the price and sold his position for realized gains. 2. Tesla is a publicly traded company, which made all of the regulatory and legal filings necessary for the purchase of their crypto. 3. Tesla has no forseeable plans to exit their position. 4. This article isn't telling the entire story. Mcafee was also indicted for Tax evasion, which Elon Musk nor Tesla are committing. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/john-mcafee-indicted-tax-evasion https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/john-mcafee-indicted-tax-evas...
- EGreg 6y ago
  So when they DO make forseeable plans and execute those plans to sell, then it will have happened “after” they pumped BTC. How long should a company hold before a pump and dump become fine?
  - emteycz 6y ago
    What pump and dump are you talking about?
    - EGreg 6y ago
      Pump = buy a lot of something so the price goes up. Let's say $2 billion of it <wait for more people to buy it as a result of the price movement, and news, etc.> Dump = sell at the higher prices and match the increased demand This is whats being advocated by market analysts, and it would be considered "fine": https://www.benzinga.com/analyst-ratings/analyst-color/21/03/20024869/tesla-should-sell-its-bitcoin-and-buy-back-shares-to-create-positive-momentum-says- https://www.benzinga.com/analyst-ratings/analyst-color/21/03... If companies don't collude but do it in a sequence, then when does it become ok? As a different example, in 2014 employees alleged that Silicon Valley companies colluded to depress their wages, by acting like a cartel: https://equitablegrowth.org/aftermath-wage-collusion-silicon-valley/ https://equitablegrowth.org/aftermath-wage-collusion-silicon... But cartels can form without having to collude, merely by people acting in concert on a meme or belief (like HODL or SQUEEZE THE SQUOZE) and this seems fine! https://arxiv.org/abs/1201.3798 https://arxiv.org/abs/1201.3798
giarc 6y ago
Do you have to complete the "dump" side to be guilty? Does Musk still own all his bitcoin/dogecoins he's purchased? I believe Tesla still owns their $1.5b worth of bitcoins.
- vntok 6y ago
  Yes you do.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
neilv 6y ago
> McAfee and Watson allegedly engaged in a scheme to exploit the “broad reach” of McAfee’s Twitter account by buying cryptocurrency assets, concealing a plan to liquidate them and then selling most quickly after his endorsements boosted prices, the CFTC said in a court document filed on Friday. Hopefully this enforcement action will put a damper on some of the many apparent investment schemes around cryptocurrencies. At least ones within reach of US regulators.
vkou 6y ago
It's not clear that yelling 'buy crypto, crypto is great' while buying crypto is illegal. It's not even clear that yelling 'buy crypto, crypto is great' while selling crypto is. Bitcoin isn't really a security, and the rules for commodities and currencies are different from those for securities.
datavirtue 6y ago
I sense another SEC investigation brewing for Musk. There was a lot of shady shit going on with Doge and bitcoin and Tesla. Coupled with his Twitter posts on the subject I would not be surprised if they are gearing up right now. An arrest would not shock me in the least.
eschaton 6y ago
Yes they should, everything involving “cryptocurrency” is a scam in one way or another. Dead serious. There is no reason for any of it to exist other than to engage in one form of serious crime or another.

I guess they should go ahead and indict Musk and the rest of crypto Twitter too then.

ketamine__ 6y ago

There is still time to indict Musk. It could happen.

EGreg 6y ago
Seems it doesn’t matter how long it has been since a sale occurred. https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN28J2UL https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN28J2UL This one in particular would hurt the very investors SEC is supposed to be protecting: https://www.coindesk.com/xrp-untradeable-sec-security?amp=1 https://www.coindesk.com/xrp-untradeable-sec-security?amp=1
- ketamine__ 6y ago
  So we should let scams continue because it hurts current investors? Sounds very disingenuous.
  - vntok 6y ago
    What scam are you talking about, exactly?
    - ketamine__ 6y ago
      Ripple

tablespoon 6y ago

> I guess they should go ahead and indict Musk and the rest of crypto Twitter too then. Maybe they will, but it'll probably be a few years. This indictment is for activity in 2018. https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/john-david-mcafee-and-executive-adviser-his-cryptocurrency-team-indicted-manhattan https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/john-david-mcafee-and-e...

gzer0 6y ago

This situation is quite different than that of Tesla and Elon Musk. 1. Mcafee was an individual that pumped the price and sold his position for realized gains. 2. Tesla is a publicly traded company, which made all of the regulatory and legal filings necessary for the purchase of their crypto. 3. Tesla has no forseeable plans to exit their position. 4. This article isn't telling the entire story. Mcafee was also indicted for Tax evasion, which Elon Musk nor Tesla are committing. [1] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/john-mcafee-indicted-tax-evasion https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/john-mcafee-indicted-tax-evas...

EGreg 6y ago
So when they DO make forseeable plans and execute those plans to sell, then it will have happened “after” they pumped BTC. How long should a company hold before a pump and dump become fine?
- emteycz 6y ago
  What pump and dump are you talking about?
  - EGreg 6y ago
    Pump = buy a lot of something so the price goes up. Let's say $2 billion of it <wait for more people to buy it as a result of the price movement, and news, etc.> Dump = sell at the higher prices and match the increased demand This is whats being advocated by market analysts, and it would be considered "fine": https://www.benzinga.com/analyst-ratings/analyst-color/21/03/20024869/tesla-should-sell-its-bitcoin-and-buy-back-shares-to-create-positive-momentum-says- https://www.benzinga.com/analyst-ratings/analyst-color/21/03... If companies don't collude but do it in a sequence, then when does it become ok? As a different example, in 2014 employees alleged that Silicon Valley companies colluded to depress their wages, by acting like a cartel: https://equitablegrowth.org/aftermath-wage-collusion-silicon-valley/ https://equitablegrowth.org/aftermath-wage-collusion-silicon... But cartels can form without having to collude, merely by people acting in concert on a meme or belief (like HODL or SQUEEZE THE SQUOZE) and this seems fine! https://arxiv.org/abs/1201.3798 https://arxiv.org/abs/1201.3798

giarc 6y ago

Do you have to complete the "dump" side to be guilty? Does Musk still own all his bitcoin/dogecoins he's purchased? I believe Tesla still owns their $1.5b worth of bitcoins.

vntok 6y ago
Yes you do.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

neilv 6y ago

> McAfee and Watson allegedly engaged in a scheme to exploit the “broad reach” of McAfee’s Twitter account by buying cryptocurrency assets, concealing a plan to liquidate them and then selling most quickly after his endorsements boosted prices, the CFTC said in a court document filed on Friday. Hopefully this enforcement action will put a damper on some of the many apparent investment schemes around cryptocurrencies. At least ones within reach of US regulators.

vkou 6y ago

It's not clear that yelling 'buy crypto, crypto is great' while buying crypto is illegal. It's not even clear that yelling 'buy crypto, crypto is great' while selling crypto is. Bitcoin isn't really a security, and the rules for commodities and currencies are different from those for securities.

datavirtue 6y ago

I sense another SEC investigation brewing for Musk. There was a lot of shady shit going on with Doge and bitcoin and Tesla. Coupled with his Twitter posts on the subject I would not be surprised if they are gearing up right now. An arrest would not shock me in the least.

eschaton 6y ago

Yes they should, everything involving “cryptocurrency” is a scam in one way or another. Dead serious. There is no reason for any of it to exist other than to engage in one form of serious crime or another.