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That's not really true. Nuclear kills about as many as RE https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energ

That's not really true. Nuclear kills about as many as RE https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy

JoeAltmaier 6y ago
But those numbers are essentially cherry-picked. They include just production of energy, like falling into the furnace? Consider about externalities. Mining, shipping. Then add in environmental erosion resulting in lower lifespans around the globe. Then failure/interruptions that endanger folks during cold snaps/heat waves. That's a big one - petrochemical plants can be down 30% of the time (nuclear < 2%) leaving grids endangered. And of course its per-terawatt deaths that are interesting, not totals. Other wise you just have (literally) a heat map!
- Mrdarknezz 6y ago
  Mining and shipping is required for all forms of energy. Of course it's gonna be per twh because that is the only way to measure that makes any sense. Kurzgesagt has a great video explaining everything here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzfpyo-q-RM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzfpyo-q-RM
  - JoeAltmaier 6y ago
    Mining and shipping are very, very different by source - every watt of coal is shipped. Only the machinery for solar is shipped. Nuclear fuel is shipped in pounds not megatons, but they are fantastically dangerous pounds. Etc. Utterly different in effect on risk. The linked chart seemed to list totals. Did it have per TWHr? I missed that.
    - Mrdarknezz 6y ago
      If you want to talkt about emissions instead here is a great summary from the Swedish Life cycle analysis by energy source: Nuclear: 6g CO2/kwh Hydro: 9g CO2/kwh Wind: 13g CO2/kwh Solar: 24g CO2/kwh This includes everything from construction to mining. The data comes from Swedens state run energy company Vattenfall LCA report https://www.vattenfall.se/foretag/miljo/epd/ https://www.vattenfall.se/foretag/miljo/epd/ and here is a an article that summarizes it https://blog.karnfull.se/blog/kaernkraftslogik-1-klimatsmart https://blog.karnfull.se/blog/kaernkraftslogik-1-klimatsmart
spark3k 6y ago
But if you change the measure of safety to: square kilometres rendered uninhabitable, or potential to be rendered uninhabitable, for tens of thousands of years then nuclear fission is dead last and always will be.

That's not really true. Nuclear kills about as many as RE https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy https://ourworldindata.org/safest-sources-of-energy

JoeAltmaier 6y ago

But those numbers are essentially cherry-picked. They include just production of energy, like falling into the furnace? Consider about externalities. Mining, shipping. Then add in environmental erosion resulting in lower lifespans around the globe. Then failure/interruptions that endanger folks during cold snaps/heat waves. That's a big one - petrochemical plants can be down 30% of the time (nuclear < 2%) leaving grids endangered. And of course its per-terawatt deaths that are interesting, not totals. Other wise you just have (literally) a heat map!

Mrdarknezz 6y ago
Mining and shipping is required for all forms of energy. Of course it's gonna be per twh because that is the only way to measure that makes any sense. Kurzgesagt has a great video explaining everything here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzfpyo-q-RM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzfpyo-q-RM
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  Mining and shipping are very, very different by source - every watt of coal is shipped. Only the machinery for solar is shipped. Nuclear fuel is shipped in pounds not megatons, but they are fantastically dangerous pounds. Etc. Utterly different in effect on risk. The linked chart seemed to list totals. Did it have per TWHr? I missed that.
  - Mrdarknezz 6y ago
    If you want to talkt about emissions instead here is a great summary from the Swedish Life cycle analysis by energy source: Nuclear: 6g CO2/kwh Hydro: 9g CO2/kwh Wind: 13g CO2/kwh Solar: 24g CO2/kwh This includes everything from construction to mining. The data comes from Swedens state run energy company Vattenfall LCA report https://www.vattenfall.se/foretag/miljo/epd/ https://www.vattenfall.se/foretag/miljo/epd/ and here is a an article that summarizes it https://blog.karnfull.se/blog/kaernkraftslogik-1-klimatsmart https://blog.karnfull.se/blog/kaernkraftslogik-1-klimatsmart

spark3k 6y ago

But if you change the measure of safety to: square kilometres rendered uninhabitable, or potential to be rendered uninhabitable, for tens of thousands of years then nuclear fission is dead last and always will be.