6 ms·

Lots of non-preachers read the Bible. Less people read mein Kampf but I know of some (some friends at school, some teachers at uni, some people on YouTube). I t

Lots of non-preachers read the Bible. Less people read mein Kampf but I know of some (some friends at school, some teachers at uni, some people on YouTube). I think Dr. Seuss was a bit of a symbol before, but now is definitely a symbol. I don't think your distinction here is very clean and your comment is elitist.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
I've read Mein Kampf. No, I didn't turn into Nazi. Very interesting insight into a mind of a very misguided person.
- major505 6y ago
  I tried to read it. I got bored half the way, and decided to read another book,a biograph of Billie Holiday.
kstenerud 6y ago
> Lots of non-preachers read the Bible. I was engaging in hyperbole to illustrate a point, not making an absolute statement. Why do you think my comment is elitist?
- woofie11 6y ago
  It's not helpful hyperbole. There were different reactions to WWII. The most helpful one is "Never again." That, in turn, leads to understanding WWII. That, in turn, leads to reading books like Mein Kampf. A lot of people read Mein Kampf, and I believe more than use it as symbol. Understanding how one man was able to do what he did is key to making sure you're not influenced the same way. I'm firmly of the belief America is starting to head the same (very general) way; the polarization is extreme. I'm curious whether this is internal or external.
  - barry-cotter 6y ago
    > There were different reactions to WWII. The most helpful one is "Never again." Yeah, that’s had no effect. See Rwanda, Burma, Xinjiang, Libya. Humanitarian intervention is a cloak for power, not something that happens when Great Power interests are at stake.
    - woofie11 6y ago
      I don't quite think that's the lesson intended here. The lesson taught in a lot of cultures hit hardest by Germany is understanding: * Personality cults * Hate * Polarization ... and the path by which Hitler came to power. Understanding what Hitler said and why it persuaded people is central to not being persuaded yourself. If you're young, think of it as a 1945 version of social media misinformation literacy. Part of the way you learn to recognize misinformation is by looking and decomposing misinformation. It's done pretty well for limiting the rise of charismatic hate-mongers for a pretty long while. We're now starting to see the rise again as the majority of voters are starting to view WWII as irrelevant history long gone, as opposed to something that happened to Mom and Dad.
  - dudeinjapan 6y ago
    When The Cat in the Hat visited the house, he made it an unsafe space. This is more or less what Hitler did in Germany, albeit on a larger scale.
- runsWphotons 6y ago
  I thought your comment was elitist for a few reasons. The most important is the way you portray "people" (the common man or woman is my inference of what you are talking about). You say "People remember only simple things, and like simple reasoning and solutions, which is what made him popular in the first place." I also object to your comment because I don't think this is a valid way to use hyperbole, if that is what you want to call it, since you aren't so much exaggerating as just saying things without a basis in fact. The Bible is probably the most read book in the world, or at least close. In vast swathes of the US, a large percentage or even most people read it consistently and even structure their lives around discussing it. Worldwide, there are over 2 billion Christians (focusing on just one religion) and a lot of these people are reading the bible, not just using it as posturing, signaling or ornamentation as you seem to imply. Mein Kampf has been widely read, and was a bestseller as recently as 2017 (in Germany!). While some no doubt use this as a symbol or ornament, it would be striking to me if a lot of people weren't reading at least part of it in all parts of the world, including the US. Still, despite being completely confused by your first paragraph, I mostly agree with your conclusion that coming after this book will just have the opposite effect and that it would be better to focus on actual crimes/other problems. I would want the poster from Germany to know that millions of Americans read the Bible and probably Mein Kampf, that this mostly goes fine, and that while some Americans might like a more German approach, a very large number probably don't want hardly any books banned or even made difficult to get and that this concept of free speech is very deeply held. If you're American, I think free speech is especially important right now because we all need to be talking with each other. The first paragraph in your comment also gave me the impression you might be out of touch with a very large portion of Americans, but I may be overstepping there.
  - kstenerud 6y ago
    My comment about "people" actually wasn't the hyperbole part; The "nobody" statements were the hyperbole. The "people" part is just the standard evolutionary psychology that affects all of us. We have to take mental shortcuts because otherwise we'd expend too much energy thinking through everything. So we stick to simple explanations for most things in our lives without even thinking about it, especially when it comes from a source we trust. Propagandists have taken advantage of this vulnerability for generations, and will continue to do so for many more since our only defence is the few who actually DO devote much energy to examining all messages from the leadership (and we rarely listen to them). For the rest of us, simple reasons and explanations will have to do in our busy lives. I did a study when I was younger of "readers" of the Bible, and found that, although many people will say that they read it, very few had enough knowledge to make that statement believable (Even on simple questions like "Who baptised who when Jesus met with John the Baptist, and why?" or "Why was Jesus so down on the Pharisees?" - many couldn't even tell me how many gospels there are!). So I find readership statements suspect, and stick to my original assessment that people rarely read the iconic works of the world, but rather rely upon what "everyone knows" about them.
dx034 6y ago
How is Dr. Seuss a symbol comparable to this? The stories themselves aren't even offensive (apart from one line in "If I ran the Zoo"). Are the illustrations alone enough to be a symbol?

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago

I've read Mein Kampf. No, I didn't turn into Nazi. Very interesting insight into a mind of a very misguided person.

major505 6y ago
I tried to read it. I got bored half the way, and decided to read another book,a biograph of Billie Holiday.

kstenerud 6y ago

> Lots of non-preachers read the Bible. I was engaging in hyperbole to illustrate a point, not making an absolute statement. Why do you think my comment is elitist?

woofie11 6y ago
It's not helpful hyperbole. There were different reactions to WWII. The most helpful one is "Never again." That, in turn, leads to understanding WWII. That, in turn, leads to reading books like Mein Kampf. A lot of people read Mein Kampf, and I believe more than use it as symbol. Understanding how one man was able to do what he did is key to making sure you're not influenced the same way. I'm firmly of the belief America is starting to head the same (very general) way; the polarization is extreme. I'm curious whether this is internal or external.
- barry-cotter 6y ago
  > There were different reactions to WWII. The most helpful one is "Never again." Yeah, that’s had no effect. See Rwanda, Burma, Xinjiang, Libya. Humanitarian intervention is a cloak for power, not something that happens when Great Power interests are at stake.
  - woofie11 6y ago
    I don't quite think that's the lesson intended here. The lesson taught in a lot of cultures hit hardest by Germany is understanding: * Personality cults * Hate * Polarization ... and the path by which Hitler came to power. Understanding what Hitler said and why it persuaded people is central to not being persuaded yourself. If you're young, think of it as a 1945 version of social media misinformation literacy. Part of the way you learn to recognize misinformation is by looking and decomposing misinformation. It's done pretty well for limiting the rise of charismatic hate-mongers for a pretty long while. We're now starting to see the rise again as the majority of voters are starting to view WWII as irrelevant history long gone, as opposed to something that happened to Mom and Dad.
- dudeinjapan 6y ago
  When The Cat in the Hat visited the house, he made it an unsafe space. This is more or less what Hitler did in Germany, albeit on a larger scale.
runsWphotons 6y ago
I thought your comment was elitist for a few reasons. The most important is the way you portray "people" (the common man or woman is my inference of what you are talking about). You say "People remember only simple things, and like simple reasoning and solutions, which is what made him popular in the first place." I also object to your comment because I don't think this is a valid way to use hyperbole, if that is what you want to call it, since you aren't so much exaggerating as just saying things without a basis in fact. The Bible is probably the most read book in the world, or at least close. In vast swathes of the US, a large percentage or even most people read it consistently and even structure their lives around discussing it. Worldwide, there are over 2 billion Christians (focusing on just one religion) and a lot of these people are reading the bible, not just using it as posturing, signaling or ornamentation as you seem to imply. Mein Kampf has been widely read, and was a bestseller as recently as 2017 (in Germany!). While some no doubt use this as a symbol or ornament, it would be striking to me if a lot of people weren't reading at least part of it in all parts of the world, including the US. Still, despite being completely confused by your first paragraph, I mostly agree with your conclusion that coming after this book will just have the opposite effect and that it would be better to focus on actual crimes/other problems. I would want the poster from Germany to know that millions of Americans read the Bible and probably Mein Kampf, that this mostly goes fine, and that while some Americans might like a more German approach, a very large number probably don't want hardly any books banned or even made difficult to get and that this concept of free speech is very deeply held. If you're American, I think free speech is especially important right now because we all need to be talking with each other. The first paragraph in your comment also gave me the impression you might be out of touch with a very large portion of Americans, but I may be overstepping there.
- kstenerud 6y ago
  My comment about "people" actually wasn't the hyperbole part; The "nobody" statements were the hyperbole. The "people" part is just the standard evolutionary psychology that affects all of us. We have to take mental shortcuts because otherwise we'd expend too much energy thinking through everything. So we stick to simple explanations for most things in our lives without even thinking about it, especially when it comes from a source we trust. Propagandists have taken advantage of this vulnerability for generations, and will continue to do so for many more since our only defence is the few who actually DO devote much energy to examining all messages from the leadership (and we rarely listen to them). For the rest of us, simple reasons and explanations will have to do in our busy lives. I did a study when I was younger of "readers" of the Bible, and found that, although many people will say that they read it, very few had enough knowledge to make that statement believable (Even on simple questions like "Who baptised who when Jesus met with John the Baptist, and why?" or "Why was Jesus so down on the Pharisees?" - many couldn't even tell me how many gospels there are!). So I find readership statements suspect, and stick to my original assessment that people rarely read the iconic works of the world, but rather rely upon what "everyone knows" about them.

dx034 6y ago

How is Dr. Seuss a symbol comparable to this? The stories themselves aren't even offensive (apart from one line in "If I ran the Zoo"). Are the illustrations alone enough to be a symbol?