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> Cultural appropriation This. I'm as left wing as they come, and agree wholeheartedly with 99% of the current far-left discourse. But some of this "cultura

> Cultural appropriation This. I'm as left wing as they come, and agree wholeheartedly with 99% of the current far-left discourse. But some of this "cultural appropriation" stuff is just nuts.

mcv 6y ago
As far as I can tell, the only case where "cultural appropriation" is legitimately bad, is when people turn another culture's symbols of accomplishment into a fashion accessory. This is the case with the Native American headdress, where every feather represents a milestone or accomplishment, and Maori life tattoos, where every tattoo represents an event out of that person's own life. Turning that into your own fashion statement without any respect for the cultural meaning, is like wearing a Purple Heart you didn't earn, except that that purple heart doesn't have the same spiritual/cultural meaning. But stuff like yoga, jazz/hip-hop, or even food? There it turns into an argument for cultural segregation, where minority cultures are effectively not allowed to become mainstream.
- 4ggr0 6y ago
  Exactly, I just noticed that the line of what's right and what's wrong is pretty fluid on Twitter. See some people get called out even just for eating food which isn't from their culture. Or a girl wearing an oriental dress to prom while being white. Just all things which seem to be Pro-[Insert Culture]. I'd rather have people eat food, wear clothes and hairstyles from other cultures instead of saying "I hate X-Cultures-food and/or clothing." As you said, there are of course things which should be considered bad. You mentioned native american headdresses, which I think is a good example. But dreadlocks, cornrows? Come on....
  - mcv 6y ago
    Dreadlocks are quite interesting in this regard. If you were to consider them as having specific religious/cultural value, then they'd be specific not so much to black people, but either to Rastafarians, or to any adherent of an Abrahamic religion who has taken the Nazarite Vow, which is associated with the biblical figure Samson, and means you don't cut your hair, and abstain from alcohol and contact with corpses, and possibly a few other things. But knotting into dreadlocks is also something that hair just does naturally if you don't comb it.
    - 4ggr0 6y ago
      That's also a good point. Some just look at specific times in history when something was exclusive to a culture, ignoring that earlier or at the same time other cultures had the same things.
    - Izkata 6y ago
      The Vikings as well.
4ggr0 6y ago
Same boat as you. I would call myself a socialist, or at least on the very left spectrum. Put an LGBTQI+ flag on my balcony to show support, try to talk to people about BLM issues in my country etc. But cultural appropriation is really something I don't understand/can't get behind...
- enriquto 6y ago
  > But cultural appropriation is really something I don't understand/can't get behind... I think that the cultural appropriation is a legitimate concern, and certainly problematic. I was just agreeing with you, that this legitimate concern is sometimes used to criticize natural and harmless things, like braiding your hair or eating certain types of cuisine. Some of the people who defend this are so over the top that they seem "double agents". Like those who harass others that wear dreadlocks while being of the wrong race. Seriously, what the fuck. What kind of reaction do they expect for their actions, other than a visceral rejection of the whole concept of cultural appropriation?
  - ben509 6y ago
    I think cultural appropriation contains two elements. One is the concern about Western colonailism, which I can't address because it gets into critical race theory and that's a huge subject I don't completely follow. You can peel off a far simpler concern that culutural heritage can be lost or devolve. France, for instance, goes to some lengths to preserve the French language. I went to some Scottish heritage group, and we all dressed up in kilts and ate haggis and such. And it's a tough problem. Getting people on board with preserving cultural heritage is hard, especially because young people are precisely the ones you need to attract, and they tend to want to do things that are new and exciting.

> Cultural appropriation This. I'm as left wing as they come, and agree wholeheartedly with 99% of the current far-left discourse. But some of this "cultural appropriation" stuff is just nuts.

mcv 6y ago

As far as I can tell, the only case where "cultural appropriation" is legitimately bad, is when people turn another culture's symbols of accomplishment into a fashion accessory. This is the case with the Native American headdress, where every feather represents a milestone or accomplishment, and Maori life tattoos, where every tattoo represents an event out of that person's own life. Turning that into your own fashion statement without any respect for the cultural meaning, is like wearing a Purple Heart you didn't earn, except that that purple heart doesn't have the same spiritual/cultural meaning. But stuff like yoga, jazz/hip-hop, or even food? There it turns into an argument for cultural segregation, where minority cultures are effectively not allowed to become mainstream.

4ggr0 6y ago
Exactly, I just noticed that the line of what's right and what's wrong is pretty fluid on Twitter. See some people get called out even just for eating food which isn't from their culture. Or a girl wearing an oriental dress to prom while being white. Just all things which seem to be Pro-[Insert Culture]. I'd rather have people eat food, wear clothes and hairstyles from other cultures instead of saying "I hate X-Cultures-food and/or clothing." As you said, there are of course things which should be considered bad. You mentioned native american headdresses, which I think is a good example. But dreadlocks, cornrows? Come on....
- mcv 6y ago
  Dreadlocks are quite interesting in this regard. If you were to consider them as having specific religious/cultural value, then they'd be specific not so much to black people, but either to Rastafarians, or to any adherent of an Abrahamic religion who has taken the Nazarite Vow, which is associated with the biblical figure Samson, and means you don't cut your hair, and abstain from alcohol and contact with corpses, and possibly a few other things. But knotting into dreadlocks is also something that hair just does naturally if you don't comb it.
  - 4ggr0 6y ago
    That's also a good point. Some just look at specific times in history when something was exclusive to a culture, ignoring that earlier or at the same time other cultures had the same things.
  - Izkata 6y ago
    The Vikings as well.

4ggr0 6y ago

Same boat as you. I would call myself a socialist, or at least on the very left spectrum. Put an LGBTQI+ flag on my balcony to show support, try to talk to people about BLM issues in my country etc. But cultural appropriation is really something I don't understand/can't get behind...

enriquto 6y ago
> But cultural appropriation is really something I don't understand/can't get behind... I think that the cultural appropriation is a legitimate concern, and certainly problematic. I was just agreeing with you, that this legitimate concern is sometimes used to criticize natural and harmless things, like braiding your hair or eating certain types of cuisine. Some of the people who defend this are so over the top that they seem "double agents". Like those who harass others that wear dreadlocks while being of the wrong race. Seriously, what the fuck. What kind of reaction do they expect for their actions, other than a visceral rejection of the whole concept of cultural appropriation?
- ben509 6y ago
  I think cultural appropriation contains two elements. One is the concern about Western colonailism, which I can't address because it gets into critical race theory and that's a huge subject I don't completely follow. You can peel off a far simpler concern that culutural heritage can be lost or devolve. France, for instance, goes to some lengths to preserve the French language. I went to some Scottish heritage group, and we all dressed up in kilts and ate haggis and such. And it's a tough problem. Getting people on board with preserving cultural heritage is hard, especially because young people are precisely the ones you need to attract, and they tend to want to do things that are new and exciting.