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Upvoted you to counter the downvotes since this actually does add to the discussion. It's important to remember that the power of Mein Kampf lies in its status

Upvoted you to counter the downvotes since this actually does add to the discussion. It's important to remember that the power of Mein Kampf lies in its status as a symbol, not its actual contents. Nobody actually reads Mein Kampf, nor have they ever (just like nobody actually reads the Bible unless they're actual preachers). It was (and still is) about the personality cult of a strong man and his message of power via blaming and oppression of minority groups, not the actual words themselves. People remember only simple things, and like simple reasoning and solutions, which is what made him popular in the first place. So the banning of this book was an attack on the symbol (and only incidentally on the literature), and the banning of the symbol is of questionable value since it basically causes a Streisand effect. Banning a symbol only adds to its power. It might have been better to just ignore it, and instead focus on prosecuting the actual hate crimes themselves.

runsWphotons 6y ago
Lots of non-preachers read the Bible. Less people read mein Kampf but I know of some (some friends at school, some teachers at uni, some people on YouTube). I think Dr. Seuss was a bit of a symbol before, but now is definitely a symbol. I don't think your distinction here is very clean and your comment is elitist.
- Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
  I've read Mein Kampf. No, I didn't turn into Nazi. Very interesting insight into a mind of a very misguided person.
  - major505 6y ago
    I tried to read it. I got bored half the way, and decided to read another book,a biograph of Billie Holiday.
- kstenerud 6y ago
  > Lots of non-preachers read the Bible. I was engaging in hyperbole to illustrate a point, not making an absolute statement. Why do you think my comment is elitist?
  - woofie11 6y ago
    It's not helpful hyperbole. There were different reactions to WWII. The most helpful one is "Never again." That, in turn, leads to understanding WWII. That, in turn, leads to reading books like Mein Kampf. A lot of people read Mein Kampf, and I believe more than use it as symbol. Understanding how one man was able to do what he did is key to making sure you're not influenced the same way. I'm firmly of the belief America is starting to head the same (very general) way; the polarization is extreme. I'm curious whether this is internal or external.
    - barry-cotter 6y ago
      > There were different reactions to WWII. The most helpful one is "Never again." Yeah, that’s had no effect. See Rwanda, Burma, Xinjiang, Libya. Humanitarian intervention is a cloak for power, not something that happens when Great Power interests are at stake.
      - woofie11 6y ago
        I don't quite think that's the lesson intended here. The lesson taught in a lot of cultures hit hardest by Germany is understanding: * Personality cults * Hate * Polarization ... and the path by which Hitler came to power. Understanding what Hitler said and why it persuaded people is central to not being persuaded yourself. If you're young, think of it as a 1945 version of social media misinformation literacy. Part of the way you learn to recognize misinformation is by looking and decomposing misinformation. It's done pretty well for limiting the rise of charismatic hate-mongers for a pretty long while. We're now starting to see the rise again as the majority of voters are starting to view WWII as irrelevant history long gone, as opposed to something that happened to Mom and Dad.
    - dudeinjapan 6y ago
      When The Cat in the Hat visited the house, he made it an unsafe space. This is more or less what Hitler did in Germany, albeit on a larger scale.
  - runsWphotons 6y ago
- dx034 6y ago
  How is Dr. Seuss a symbol comparable to this? The stories themselves aren't even offensive (apart from one line in "If I ran the Zoo"). Are the illustrations alone enough to be a symbol?
enriquto 6y ago
> nobody actually reads the Bible unless they're actual preachers I'm an ardent atheist, but I do actually read the bible from time to time. I enjoy to read the three gospels, and spot the differences between them. I also enjoy some songs in the psalms. Most of the rest is quite annoying, but I enjoyed Crumb's illustration of the first book of Genesis.
dbuder 6y ago
Orwell read Mein Kampf, he took it to Spain too. I've met people who have read the Bible, because it is the book of their religion. And I've met people who read the Bible and concluded that Christianity is hogwash because they read it.
blackbrokkoli 6y ago
Why would you not read it? As you dive deeper into Nazi era history a lot is based around the question who knew what, how plausible the denial of that person or this organisation was. Seeing the publicly distributed book that may or may not contain specific details regarding plans for war or "The Jewish Question" for yourself is an excellent starting point, no? I agree with other commenters here that the read was not particularly good, but definitely insightful. I actually do not agree that banning symbols is bad: Especially the Nazis really had a hand for designing good looking stuff, and that will bleed into pop culture if you don't stop it, unconsciously associating the Nazis with "cool". Just look at the Hydra organisation in the Captain America Movies or Japanese Anime, where using Nazi design language was obviously not taboo. Of course, as you said, banning a symbol does not eradicate it, but it does not have to to have positive effect.
_trampeltier 6y ago
>(just like nobody actually reads the Bible unless they're actual preachers) I did read a bit from the Koran for a while, just I was interested about what's in it (and why so many people die because of this book) even I don't believe in any god at all.
ceilingcorner 6y ago
> just like nobody actually reads the Bible unless they're actual preachers The Bible is the single most influential work of literature in the history of human civilization. Comparing it to a "personality cult of a strong man" and Mein Kampf is perhaps the most uninformed comment I have ever read on this website.
- kstenerud 6y ago
  What makes it uninformed? I find the comparison apt: Both are iconic texts, both have international historical and present influence, and both are rarely actually read, despite people feeling confident about their contents.
  - ceilingcorner 6y ago
    The entire history of Western literature and culture has been shaped by the Bible. Legal systems, literature, ethics, on and on. For nearly two thousand years. Plenty of people that aren't preachers read and study it intensely. It was the impetus for developing the printing press and for literacy in general. Most modern European languages are based on initial translations of the Bible. Its influence is so pervasive that it's virtually impossible to imagine the modern world without it. Compare that to Mein Kampf, which is a rambling book by a dictator that was only "relevant" in the world for about 25 years. Even then, people didn't really read it. It certainly had zero influence on Nazi legal codes or culture. It was more like the political books that come out today: written mostly to make some money and get one's ideas into the public sphere. Not as a holy document. As I said, your comment is just deeply, deeply uninformed.
    - kstenerud 6y ago
      It feels like you're reaching for reasons to be offended and pick a fight, so I'll stop here.
      - ceilingcorner 6y ago
        ? I'm just pointing out why your comment is misinformed. I don't consider that to be "picking a fight." I'm also not a Christian, so it has nothing to do with being offended, unless the abuse of basic historical facts is something one can be offended about.
ben509 6y ago
> Nobody actually reads Mein Kampf ... It was (and still is) about the personality cult of a strong man and his message of power via blaming and oppression of minority groups, not the actual words themselves. That's precisely why people should read it. That personality cult developed because Hitler's narrative of oppresion by Jews resonated so strongly. > just like nobody actually reads the Bible unless they're actual preachers Nonsense. Christians not only read it, but study it as a guide to life. There was an informal thing at my work where they'd read and discuss a passage every week or so.
wirrbel 6y ago
you know, my great aunt found the book in her attic (it was a gift for her wedding at the time and then it got stowed away quickly when the allies took control). It is an almost unreadable piece of shit. But, I have no doubt that some people will still read it. I doubt that it would turn 'normal people' into fascists, but 'normal people after falling into a youtube-video rabbit hole with right wing content', I guess suddenly it might be appealing. Banning the symbols is effective in Germany, the same goes for the swastika. By banning this symbol, the society makes clear that the symbol and what it represents is not desired and not mainstream.

runsWphotons 6y ago

Lots of non-preachers read the Bible. Less people read mein Kampf but I know of some (some friends at school, some teachers at uni, some people on YouTube). I think Dr. Seuss was a bit of a symbol before, but now is definitely a symbol. I don't think your distinction here is very clean and your comment is elitist.

Andrew_nenakhov 6y ago
I've read Mein Kampf. No, I didn't turn into Nazi. Very interesting insight into a mind of a very misguided person.
- major505 6y ago
  I tried to read it. I got bored half the way, and decided to read another book,a biograph of Billie Holiday.
kstenerud 6y ago
> Lots of non-preachers read the Bible. I was engaging in hyperbole to illustrate a point, not making an absolute statement. Why do you think my comment is elitist?
- woofie11 6y ago
  It's not helpful hyperbole. There were different reactions to WWII. The most helpful one is "Never again." That, in turn, leads to understanding WWII. That, in turn, leads to reading books like Mein Kampf. A lot of people read Mein Kampf, and I believe more than use it as symbol. Understanding how one man was able to do what he did is key to making sure you're not influenced the same way. I'm firmly of the belief America is starting to head the same (very general) way; the polarization is extreme. I'm curious whether this is internal or external.
  - barry-cotter 6y ago
    > There were different reactions to WWII. The most helpful one is "Never again." Yeah, that’s had no effect. See Rwanda, Burma, Xinjiang, Libya. Humanitarian intervention is a cloak for power, not something that happens when Great Power interests are at stake.
    - woofie11 6y ago
      I don't quite think that's the lesson intended here. The lesson taught in a lot of cultures hit hardest by Germany is understanding: * Personality cults * Hate * Polarization ... and the path by which Hitler came to power. Understanding what Hitler said and why it persuaded people is central to not being persuaded yourself. If you're young, think of it as a 1945 version of social media misinformation literacy. Part of the way you learn to recognize misinformation is by looking and decomposing misinformation. It's done pretty well for limiting the rise of charismatic hate-mongers for a pretty long while. We're now starting to see the rise again as the majority of voters are starting to view WWII as irrelevant history long gone, as opposed to something that happened to Mom and Dad.
  - dudeinjapan 6y ago
    When The Cat in the Hat visited the house, he made it an unsafe space. This is more or less what Hitler did in Germany, albeit on a larger scale.
- runsWphotons 6y ago
dx034 6y ago
How is Dr. Seuss a symbol comparable to this? The stories themselves aren't even offensive (apart from one line in "If I ran the Zoo"). Are the illustrations alone enough to be a symbol?

enriquto 6y ago

> nobody actually reads the Bible unless they're actual preachers I'm an ardent atheist, but I do actually read the bible from time to time. I enjoy to read the three gospels, and spot the differences between them. I also enjoy some songs in the psalms. Most of the rest is quite annoying, but I enjoyed Crumb's illustration of the first book of Genesis.

dbuder 6y ago

Orwell read Mein Kampf, he took it to Spain too. I've met people who have read the Bible, because it is the book of their religion. And I've met people who read the Bible and concluded that Christianity is hogwash because they read it.

blackbrokkoli 6y ago

Why would you not read it? As you dive deeper into Nazi era history a lot is based around the question who knew what, how plausible the denial of that person or this organisation was. Seeing the publicly distributed book that may or may not contain specific details regarding plans for war or "The Jewish Question" for yourself is an excellent starting point, no? I agree with other commenters here that the read was not particularly good, but definitely insightful. I actually do not agree that banning symbols is bad: Especially the Nazis really had a hand for designing good looking stuff, and that will bleed into pop culture if you don't stop it, unconsciously associating the Nazis with "cool". Just look at the Hydra organisation in the Captain America Movies or Japanese Anime, where using Nazi design language was obviously not taboo. Of course, as you said, banning a symbol does not eradicate it, but it does not have to to have positive effect.

_trampeltier 6y ago

>(just like nobody actually reads the Bible unless they're actual preachers) I did read a bit from the Koran for a while, just I was interested about what's in it (and why so many people die because of this book) even I don't believe in any god at all.

ceilingcorner 6y ago

> just like nobody actually reads the Bible unless they're actual preachers The Bible is the single most influential work of literature in the history of human civilization. Comparing it to a "personality cult of a strong man" and Mein Kampf is perhaps the most uninformed comment I have ever read on this website.

kstenerud 6y ago
What makes it uninformed? I find the comparison apt: Both are iconic texts, both have international historical and present influence, and both are rarely actually read, despite people feeling confident about their contents.
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  The entire history of Western literature and culture has been shaped by the Bible. Legal systems, literature, ethics, on and on. For nearly two thousand years. Plenty of people that aren't preachers read and study it intensely. It was the impetus for developing the printing press and for literacy in general. Most modern European languages are based on initial translations of the Bible. Its influence is so pervasive that it's virtually impossible to imagine the modern world without it. Compare that to Mein Kampf, which is a rambling book by a dictator that was only "relevant" in the world for about 25 years. Even then, people didn't really read it. It certainly had zero influence on Nazi legal codes or culture. It was more like the political books that come out today: written mostly to make some money and get one's ideas into the public sphere. Not as a holy document. As I said, your comment is just deeply, deeply uninformed.
  - kstenerud 6y ago
    It feels like you're reaching for reasons to be offended and pick a fight, so I'll stop here.
    - ceilingcorner 6y ago
      ? I'm just pointing out why your comment is misinformed. I don't consider that to be "picking a fight." I'm also not a Christian, so it has nothing to do with being offended, unless the abuse of basic historical facts is something one can be offended about.

ben509 6y ago

> Nobody actually reads Mein Kampf ... It was (and still is) about the personality cult of a strong man and his message of power via blaming and oppression of minority groups, not the actual words themselves. That's precisely why people should read it. That personality cult developed because Hitler's narrative of oppresion by Jews resonated so strongly. > just like nobody actually reads the Bible unless they're actual preachers Nonsense. Christians not only read it, but study it as a guide to life. There was an informal thing at my work where they'd read and discuss a passage every week or so.

wirrbel 6y ago

you know, my great aunt found the book in her attic (it was a gift for her wedding at the time and then it got stowed away quickly when the allies took control). It is an almost unreadable piece of shit. But, I have no doubt that some people will still read it. I doubt that it would turn 'normal people' into fascists, but 'normal people after falling into a youtube-video rabbit hole with right wing content', I guess suddenly it might be appealing. Banning the symbols is effective in Germany, the same goes for the swastika. By banning this symbol, the society makes clear that the symbol and what it represents is not desired and not mainstream.