7 ms·

I work for AMD, but this comment contains exclusively my personal opinions and information that is publicly available. ROCm has not been abandoned. PyTorch is

I work for AMD, but this comment contains exclusively my personal opinions and information that is publicly available. ROCm has not been abandoned. PyTorch is built on top of rocBLAS, rocFFT, and Tensile (among other libraries) which are all under active development. You can watch the commits roll in day-by-day on their public GitHub repositories. I can't speak about hardware support beyond what's written in the docs, but there are more senior folks at AMD who do comment on future plans (like John Bridgman).

beagle3 6y ago
Can you comment perhaps on what you guys have compared to nVidia’s DGX? I’d rather buy a workhorse with open drivers.
- slavik81 6y ago
  The MI100 is our server compute product. The marketing page is probably a better source of information than I am: https://www.amd.com/en/products/server-accelerators/instinct-mi100 https://www.amd.com/en/products/server-accelerators/instinct...
mcdevilkiller 6y ago
Yes, you can ask bridgmanAMD on Reddit.
ckastner 6y ago
Hardware support is key, though. CUDA works with basically any card made in the last 5 years, consumer or compute. ROCm seems to work with a limited set of compute cards only. There's a ROCm team in Debian [1] trying to push ROCm forward (ROCm being open), but just getting supported hardware alone is already a major roadblock, which stalls the effort, and hence any contributions Debian could give back. [1] https://salsa.debian.org/rocm-team https://salsa.debian.org/rocm-team
- slavik81 6y ago
  I didn't know about the Debian team. Thank you very much for informing me! I'm not sure how much I can do, but I would be happy to discuss with them the obstacles they are facing and see what I can help with. I'm better positioned to help with software issues than hardware matters, but I would love to hear about ROCm from their perspective. What's the best way to contact the team?
  - ckastner 6y ago
    The team's communication channel is the Debian AI mailing list [1], and they'd absolutely appreciate someone reaching out. Having ROCm succeed is a mutual interest. From what I recall, on the software side, I think the difficulties stemmed from ROCm being distributed (naturally, of course) as a vendor would do it, for example: targeting specific kernels, compilers, distribution versions. The problem with this is that all these may become out of date, which means that the GitHub instructions may no longer work for anyone wanting to give it a try. This was the case for some of the team members attempting to rebuild some of the packages. The Debian team would prefer to package all elements of the ROCm ecosystem and include them in the official Debian archive, so that users can just run `apt-get install rocm-something` without worrying about the kernel version etc., just as they can already do a trivial `apt-get install nvidia-cuda-toolkit`. I think collaboration with AMD here would be mutually beneficial, as on the one hand, Debian wants FOSS accelerated computing, which AMD is pushing, and on the other hand, Debian is naturally experienced in distributing things for Debian, Ubuntu, etc., something AMD could benefit from. Thank you for engaging! [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-ai/ https://lists.debian.org/debian-ai/
ebegnwgnen 6y ago
"Future plan"... it's been years and it's still "future plan". I want to buy AMD because they are more open than Nvidia. But Nvidia supports CUDA day one for all their graphic cards and AMD still don't have rocm support on most of their product even years after their release [0] Given AMD size & budget, the reason why they don't hire a few more employee full time on making rocm work with their own graphic card is beyond me. The worst is how they keep people in waiting. It's always vague phrases like "not currently", "may be supported in the future", " "future plan", " we cannot comment on specific model support ", etc. AMD doesn't want rocm on consumer card ? Then say it. Stop making me check rocm repos every week to get always more disappointed. AMD plans to support it on consumer card ? Then say it and give a release date : "In May 2021 , the RX 6800 will get rocm support, thanks for your patience and your trust in our product". I like AMD for their openness and support of standards, but they are so unprofessional when it comes to Compute [0] https://github.com/RadeonOpenCompute/ROCm/issues/887 https://github.com/RadeonOpenCompute/ROCm/issues/887
- 01100011 6y ago
  > why they don't hire a few more employee The reason is that it would take more than a few more employees to provide optimized support across all GPUs. If nothing else, it's a significant testing burden.
- dkersten 6y ago
  I really don't want to buy Nvidia, but AMD really isn't an alternative if you do anything outside of gaming...
vetinari 6y ago
I have no affiliation with AMD. Just own few pieces of their hardware. The following is my speculation. For what I noticed, Polaris and Vega had a brute force approach; you could throw a workload on them and they would brute force through it. Navi generation is more gamer oriented; it does not have the hardware for the brutal approach, it relies more on optimizations from the software running on it and using it in specific ways. Provides better perfomance for games, but worse compute - and that's why it is not and is not going to be supported by ROCm. The downside of course is, that you can no longer buy Vega. If I knew it last time it was on sale...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mastazi 6y ago
> PyTorch is built on top of rocBLAS, rocFFT, and Tensile (among other libraries) which are all under active development. That's not very helpful if we can't use them on our own computers... Not many devs are able to put their hands on a datacentre-class card...

beagle3 6y ago

Can you comment perhaps on what you guys have compared to nVidia’s DGX? I’d rather buy a workhorse with open drivers.

slavik81 6y ago
The MI100 is our server compute product. The marketing page is probably a better source of information than I am: https://www.amd.com/en/products/server-accelerators/instinct-mi100 https://www.amd.com/en/products/server-accelerators/instinct...

mcdevilkiller 6y ago

Yes, you can ask bridgmanAMD on Reddit.

ckastner 6y ago

Hardware support is key, though. CUDA works with basically any card made in the last 5 years, consumer or compute. ROCm seems to work with a limited set of compute cards only. There's a ROCm team in Debian [1] trying to push ROCm forward (ROCm being open), but just getting supported hardware alone is already a major roadblock, which stalls the effort, and hence any contributions Debian could give back. [1] https://salsa.debian.org/rocm-team https://salsa.debian.org/rocm-team

slavik81 6y ago
I didn't know about the Debian team. Thank you very much for informing me! I'm not sure how much I can do, but I would be happy to discuss with them the obstacles they are facing and see what I can help with. I'm better positioned to help with software issues than hardware matters, but I would love to hear about ROCm from their perspective. What's the best way to contact the team?
- ckastner 6y ago
  The team's communication channel is the Debian AI mailing list [1], and they'd absolutely appreciate someone reaching out. Having ROCm succeed is a mutual interest. From what I recall, on the software side, I think the difficulties stemmed from ROCm being distributed (naturally, of course) as a vendor would do it, for example: targeting specific kernels, compilers, distribution versions. The problem with this is that all these may become out of date, which means that the GitHub instructions may no longer work for anyone wanting to give it a try. This was the case for some of the team members attempting to rebuild some of the packages. The Debian team would prefer to package all elements of the ROCm ecosystem and include them in the official Debian archive, so that users can just run `apt-get install rocm-something` without worrying about the kernel version etc., just as they can already do a trivial `apt-get install nvidia-cuda-toolkit`. I think collaboration with AMD here would be mutually beneficial, as on the one hand, Debian wants FOSS accelerated computing, which AMD is pushing, and on the other hand, Debian is naturally experienced in distributing things for Debian, Ubuntu, etc., something AMD could benefit from. Thank you for engaging! [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-ai/ https://lists.debian.org/debian-ai/

ebegnwgnen 6y ago

"Future plan"... it's been years and it's still "future plan". I want to buy AMD because they are more open than Nvidia. But Nvidia supports CUDA day one for all their graphic cards and AMD still don't have rocm support on most of their product even years after their release [0] Given AMD size & budget, the reason why they don't hire a few more employee full time on making rocm work with their own graphic card is beyond me. The worst is how they keep people in waiting. It's always vague phrases like "not currently", "may be supported in the future", " "future plan", " we cannot comment on specific model support ", etc. AMD doesn't want rocm on consumer card ? Then say it. Stop making me check rocm repos every week to get always more disappointed. AMD plans to support it on consumer card ? Then say it and give a release date : "In May 2021 , the RX 6800 will get rocm support, thanks for your patience and your trust in our product". I like AMD for their openness and support of standards, but they are so unprofessional when it comes to Compute [0] https://github.com/RadeonOpenCompute/ROCm/issues/887 https://github.com/RadeonOpenCompute/ROCm/issues/887

01100011 6y ago
> why they don't hire a few more employee The reason is that it would take more than a few more employees to provide optimized support across all GPUs. If nothing else, it's a significant testing burden.
dkersten 6y ago
I really don't want to buy Nvidia, but AMD really isn't an alternative if you do anything outside of gaming...

vetinari 6y ago

I have no affiliation with AMD. Just own few pieces of their hardware. The following is my speculation. For what I noticed, Polaris and Vega had a brute force approach; you could throw a workload on them and they would brute force through it. Navi generation is more gamer oriented; it does not have the hardware for the brutal approach, it relies more on optimizations from the software running on it and using it in specific ways. Provides better perfomance for games, but worse compute - and that's why it is not and is not going to be supported by ROCm. The downside of course is, that you can no longer buy Vega. If I knew it last time it was on sale...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

mastazi 6y ago

> PyTorch is built on top of rocBLAS, rocFFT, and Tensile (among other libraries) which are all under active development. That's not very helpful if we can't use them on our own computers... Not many devs are able to put their hands on a datacentre-class card...