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India downgraded from ‘free’ to ‘partly free’ in democracy report

148 points by undefined1 6y ago

XiJInPaddington 6y ago
Modi reminds me a lot of Tayyip Erdogan. Erdogan famously said democracy is like a train in that you get off once you've arrived at your destination. I see similar impulses from Modi and the BJP. I can very easily see Modi talking about how mandirs and shikharas are barracks and helmets. India is headed down a dangerous path and his perversion of Hinduism will not end well.
- 64bittechie 6y ago
  The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government. The current ruling government has undertaken fundamental reforms that _all_ political parties have had in their manifestos but nobody has had the political will to execute on it. In fact in the past 7 years there hasn't been an single legitimate instance of corruption or scandal. If this is the dangerous path, please sign me up for more.
  - noobermin 6y ago
    If you know about the history of fascism it has always had a base in a certain section of the middle class of a country aligned with some elites (as opposed to one rooted in the working class).
    - 64bittechie 6y ago
      [deleted]
      - dang 6y ago
        That can only lead massively off topic. Please don't take HN threads into generic political flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - md8 6y ago
    Exactly. I am suspecting that all these attacks are part of George Soros fake propaganda, which he does with every other country which doesnt listen to him. George Soros is a blood sucking leech.
    - dang 6y ago
      Yikes. Please keep flamewar comments off HN—especially classic ideological battle stuff. Also, please note the site guideline against calling names. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - temp345675634 6y ago
    Your point is exactly the things a lot of my Hindu friends say. Freedom and prosperity are two different things. China has/had a booming economy but look at the way they are treating Muslims or dissent. Yes, for mainstream Hindu nationalists, this is a great time, the government is fully for them. But with all due respect spare a thought for the minorities, journalists and even comedians who are sent to jail for no reason. What about CAA etc.?
    - 64bittechie 6y ago
      Yes, please explain "What about CAA"? Have you read it? What parts of the CAA are you opposed and why?
      - temp345675634 6y ago
        Classic "strawman". Miss the point and discuss some detail. From any independent point of view - CAA is simply "discrimination on the basis of religion". Also it can lead to creating a country where the government can render people "stateless" on their whim. Anyways, speaking of topics, what about "demonetisation" which was largely a failure, "freedom of press" etc. Finally, I want to live in a society where we can agree to disagree. Like with you, you have a valid opinion and I respect that, I hope you can too.
        64bittechie 6y ago
        So asking for specifics is a "strawman" argument? CAA is large and complex legislation. Pointing out flaws is a constructive process. I can agree to disagree with people but I would like to better understand your point of view. That was my inquiry. If you're unable to provide specifics, thats fine.
    - hesarenu 6y ago
      There has been demand for hindus to manage their own temples. This been a right winged party has done nothing on it for last 5 years. Not even in states they are ruling. As for comedians there should be demand to remove the blasphemy laws. That would stop those hurting religious cases.
  - nkskalyan 6y ago
    "The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government." -> Do you have any proof for this? I have been for greater part of the 1st Modi regime. It was mostly a shitshow with Demonetisation.
  - ecnerwala 6y ago
    "The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government." - Based on what metrics?
    - random314 6y ago
      India's GDP growth rate is not negative. Hence... Talking about middle class incomes is a total red herring. These are fairly typical diversionary tactics, to move the conversation from an uncomfortable topic such as fascism and human rights violations to more mundane discussions about economic metrics. If you have been in a couple of these discussions you will learn to avoid these diversionary traps :)
  - random314 6y ago
    This is another way of saying that India does not have a negative GDP growth rate (covid19 excepted). Independent India has actually never had a negative growth rate ever, until 2020. This also ignores 3 fundamental facts 1. The middle class of India is a minority. The majority of India is lower class. 2. The growth rate has been declining ever since Modi has assumed power. 3. The current discussion is about fascism, suspension of habeas corpud, human rights violations and the usurpation of power from independent branches like the judiciary, election commission, enforcement directorate etc. - not the middle class income profile. Germany was also prosperous under Hitler.
  - vijaybritto 6y ago
    Can you please cite with examples of growth in the past 7 years with comparison to the previous govt? This govt has been a failure in an astounding scale and the numbers confirm them. I'm not getting what you mean by "never been more prosperous"
  - sifar 6y ago
    >> The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government Have you looked at the interest rates ? The government is crushing the very same middle class savers/pensioners who have supported them ardently. And the funny thing is they still continue to do so. This irony is lost on everybody.
  - postingawayonhn 6y ago
    > The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government. It would be pretty worrying if they weren't.
- neophyt3 6y ago
  problem is not with BJP, its with opposition party who are using violence to put their point... India have too many many many many people who dont pay taxes at all and bjp is hurting them. I still don't understand why HN is turning into propaganda forum
  - arn4v 6y ago
    > its with opposition party who are using violence to put their point. Care to provide sources for this?
saravana85 6y ago
Hope they dont ban hindustan times for this article.
- shadycuz 6y ago
  It will take a while, they are busy banning crypto and muslims right now.
  - dang 6y ago
    Please do not take HN threads further into flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - shadycuz 6y ago
      Your censorship would fit right in in India.
qart 6y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwOGdxRnfK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwOGdxRnfK4 Shekhar Gupta's analyses are generally good. The summary is at 25:30. Overall, rule of law is where India does poorly. That aside, I am not fond of these "democracy reports" when they are driven by opinions of a handful of people, rather than data-driven. As for rule of law, India's judicial backlogs are truly atrocious.
- 64bittechie 6y ago
  Aside from backlogs, India's judiciary is alive and kicking. Better than some of the 'free' countries even. There are enough examples of the judiciary smacking down the ruling government.
- aravindet 6y ago
  The problems with the judiciary go far beyond backlogs; far too many judges seem to hold extreme personal prejudices and are not shy about basing their judgements on them. An ongoing controversy concerns the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court who offered an alleged rapist freedom in exchange for marrying his victim. The victim, who was underage at the time of the attacks, was "stalked, tied up, gagged, repeatedly raped and was threatened with being doused in petrol, set alight and have her brother killed". [1] Other judgements from 2020 that the Freedom House report refers to include the acquittal of allies of the ruling party for demolishing a 15th century mosque (despite overwhelming evidence) and granting the site of that mosque to allies of the ruling party to build a Hindu temple, a court case which bizarrely considered a Hindu deity one of the winning litigants. Previous judgements acquitted the current home minister and president of the ruling party of ordering extra-judicial killings and freed other members of the ruling party who were previously convicted of murders during religious riots. This is not to say all judgements fall into this pattern. There are undoubtedly a few highlights such as Shreya Singhal (online freedom of expression), 377 (decriminalization of homosexuality) and the Right to Privacy (is a thing). However these are few and far between. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/04/indias-top-judge-tells-accused-rapist-to-marry-victim-to-avoid-jail https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/04/indias-top-jud...
  - 6y ago
JackPoach 6y ago
Probably not a popular opinion, but current Covid restrictions have limited personal freedoms in more meaningful ways than political changes in any country. You can live in a very liberal European country (ex. Netherlands or Denmark) and have fewer freedoms with regards to your ability to go outside where you need to go than 'a less democratic country' with lax covid policies. Feels really strange. Also, it's a very western view to a country to be less or more democratic, depending on how authoritarian a current leader is. You can talk to an average person in India, Turkey or Hungary and very few will feel that they are now less free because, say, Orban or Modi is in charge (although they may totally dislike their leaders).
- sa1 6y ago
  I had the privilege to be able to leave the country this year, the lack of freedom inside India had become personally stifling. I went from lax Covid policies to a locked down city, and I feel freer.
  - ralusek 6y ago
    What was the lack of freedom you experienced in India? Not asking rhetorically.
    - avh02 6y ago
      not the OP, but on my few (yes, tourist) visits to India - I've found things done that try to watch or "guide" you to do things a certain way. Examples: getting a phone number as tourist was complex, we decided to keep roaming for 5 weeks. every hotel you check in to asks you to write down where you came from and where you're going next. all so they can probably throw it in the trash. we didn't know where we were going next half the time, we made it up. The amount of personal data required to do just about anything. at the airports they have staff that will sit and make random marks on your boarding pass and write things down, but not consistently. for me it felt very much like India was a "state that thinks it's in control of everything but doesn't have a real, substantive grasp on anything" - yet as a foreigner, i felt very much managed. all opinion ^^
imwillofficial 6y ago
I love how the west casts aspersions on other nations as “free” or “not free” While they openly conduct regime change around the world and can’t even have any semblance of an honest election.
- meddlepal 6y ago
  > can’t even have any semblance of an honest election. Expand on this please.
  - dang 6y ago
    Please no. It can only lead massively off topic, and is certain to turn nasty. We're trying to avoid that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - 64bittechie 6y ago
    1. Spreading voter misinformation 2. Delegitimizing mail-in ballots 3. Delegitimizing election officials 4. Calling up state election officials to change votes in favor of Trump 5. Filing 200+ BS lawsuits questioning the authenticity of ballots 6. Disenfranchising minorities by gerrymandering 7. 250+ bills have been introduced in various states restricting voter rights Do you seriously want me to go on?
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents. It leads to predictable discussion, and usually nasty places, which isn't what this site is supposed to be for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - 64bittechie 6y ago
    So you're fine allowing inflammatory, garbage reports on HackerNews but anything critical of the said garbage is not allowed?
bshepard 6y ago
For recorded history, the subcontinent has been politically unified for -- at most -- 250 years. There are many different nations inside the "Republic of India." Some of these people are already seeking independence (https://referendum2020.org/ https://referendum2020.org/) and more will join them. In retrospect, "India" will perhaps seem akin to the Austro-Hungarian Empire or the Ottoman empire: a cage of nations. One friend of mine in Kolkata has informed me that there is more and more consideration of the "Himalayan Reconfiguration" -- a peaceful liberation of the nations trapped inside of the "Republic of India."
- obiwanpallav1 6y ago
  The website link doesn't work and the term "Himalayan Reconfiguration" doesn't provide any contextual search results. Kolkata is a pretty populous city. Along with "Himalayan Reconfiguration" the people there can come up with "Andes Reconfiguration" and "Rocky Reconfiguration" as well. Please don't add comments like this to market the divisive ideas enveloped inside the pseudo armchair philosophy.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > In retrospect, "India" will perhaps seem akin to the Austro-Hungarian Empire or the Ottoman empire: a cage of nations. As a half-Croat, this reminds me also of a more recent example: the Balkans. Let's just hope and pray to whatever gods we adhere to that, should the situation come to the worst, it won't end in Balkan-level bloodshed.
  - bshepard 6y ago
    Yes, very profound point, completely agree.
- 64bittechie 6y ago
  Sure. Its been decades that people have been hoping India would disintegrate. Unity in diversity. One India. Jai Hind!
- peteretep 6y ago
  I think you can make a pretty compelling case that the Delhi Sultanate and the Mughal empire were cases of politically unified India for several hundred years before that.
known 6y ago
Modi regime intention is to preserve RSS/BRAHMIN/BANIA hegemony/corruption in India as evident from https://www.quora.com/Which-caste-is-looting-India/answers/220938900 https://www.quora.com/Which-caste-is-looting-India/answers/2... and https://www.quora.com/Is-Rajput-a-more-powerful-caste-since-history-until-now/answer/Taruni-Adarsh-1 https://www.quora.com/Is-Rajput-a-more-powerful-caste-since-...
- rajeshp1986 6y ago
  Those are random quora posts. How is anything evident from that? Even all of the data from the 2nd Quora post is false. It is neither verified nor those posts link to any source.
dang 6y ago
All: Indian politics has recently been overtaking even U.S. politics for flamewar and unsubstantive comments in HN threads. India is an important, amazing country. Developments there are of interest and on-topic for HN. But ideological, nationalistic, racial, and (god forbid) religious battle is definitely not on topic for HN. Therefore, if you plan to comment in threads like this, make sure you're up to date on the site guidelines, that you have something thoughtful to say, and are coming from a place of curiosity. That's the core value of this site. Extra tip: if you're hot under the collar, wait to cool down before posting. These issues are intense. It's easy and all too human to get activated, so we each need to do some internal processing before taking to the comments for discussion. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
64bittechie 6y ago
Freedom House report has many factual inaccuracies on key points such as CAA, NRC. The report seems to be extremely biased and based on heresay instead of factual evidence. > Many observers believe the register’s purpose is to disenfranchise Muslim voters by effectively classifying them as illegal immigrants. Importantly, Muslims disproportionately lack documentation attesting to their place of birth. Undocumented non-Muslims, meanwhile, would be eligible for citizenship through a fast-track process under the CAA. Who are these observers? What is their standing? Have Indian muslims been denied citizenship rights? Factually, more Indian Hindu residents have been left off of NRC due to lack of documentation than Muslims. FreedomHouse doesn't represent a balanced opinion here. People, irrespective of their religion, are allowed to acquire Indian citizenship after 12 years. CAA makes special provisions for some religious minorities. Thats all. More importantly on the topic of NRC, the current government did not invent it. This had been in the works for years before the BJP became the ruling party. Critics of India even criticized the government for Aadhar as "infringing "upon civil liberties. The same critics have failed to mention the benefits that these systems have yielded Indian citizens irrespective of religion. That said, given the shit show that the US "democracy" has seen for the past 4 years, I am surprised to see FreedomHouse listing the US as a "free" democracy where the president and the ruling Republican party were not only responsible for spreading voter misinformation, opposing a free and fair election, causing an insurrection and failed to hold anybody accountable for it.
- random314 6y ago
  Denaturalization of 2 million citizens is not a joke that can be brushed away lightly. The denaturalized will either be locked up in concentration camps for life or lose their ability to vote, own property and work. Either way they will become slave laborers for the rest of their lives, incarcerated or otherwise. Large scale denaturalization has only been carried out recently in apartheid south Africa, nazi Germany and Burmese militia. Denaturalization of Hindus does not make the system "fair". They do however have a way back via CAA. The hindu victims are typically lower caste Dalits, for whom the upper caste middle class Hindus typically have very little sympathy. Stories from Indias largest concentration camp for denaturalized citizens. https://thewire.in/rights/assam-goalpara-detention-centre-nrc-citizenship https://thewire.in/rights/assam-goalpara-detention-centre-nr...
dartharva 6y ago
Okay, the comments here are not something I'd have expected to see on HN. Kudos to dang for his attempts at keeping things in control. Bringing the discussion more suited to HN, India has terrible ratings on Internet freedom: https://freedomhouse.org/country/india/freedom-net/2020 https://freedomhouse.org/country/india/freedom-net/2020 The country's administration blocks websites and cuts internet connections en masse, without warnings and legitimate reasons. Also, its new content regulation and liability laws threaten the concepts of open internet: https://blog.mozilla.org/netpolicy/2021/03/02/indias-new-intermediary-liability-and-digital-media-regulations-will-harm-the-open-internet/ https://blog.mozilla.org/netpolicy/2021/03/02/indias-new-int...
- 64bittechie 6y ago
  You're citing freedomhouse which is a dumpster fire of unsubstantiated content. Do you have a better source to cite?
ghoomketu 6y ago
This article from PG from a very long time ago called "Keep your identity small" seems very relevant whenever issues like "capitol hill", "indian democracy", "muslim religion", "trump", etc are posted here for discussion. You can't change other people's opinion about their nation, religion, politics, etc even if you believe you have all the facts and most of the time it just devolves into a flamewar (1) (1) http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html
- dang 6y ago
  I haven't read that essay since it came out, but I always found that it interesting, because non-identification is a well-known spiritual teaching, indeed a well-known Indian spiritual teaching — but pg seemed to get at it from first principles.
- ralusek 6y ago
  No practical identity smaller than the individual; a concept that has been a foundational pillar of liberalism until, like, 10 years ago. Collectivism of all kinds is destroying western civilization.
- boruto 6y ago
  Thanks for the link. The article hits the nail. That was a meaningful read.
dncornholio 6y ago
India has a deep corruption problem. There's a real incentive to make money off scams and the government is giving a blind eye. A guy infiltrated some of the scam companies, who where all in India, using their remote desktop software against them and got feeds of all the webcams and microphones in the building. Multiple reports to police and most companies still runnning to this day.
- iKevinShah 6y ago
  wow. Which story was this? Would love to read about this.
  - Stratoscope 6y ago
    There are a bunch of them here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=scam+office https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=scam+office
  - dncornholio 6y ago
    It's Jim Browning: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBNG0osIBAprVcZZ3ic84vw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBNG0osIBAprVcZZ3ic84vw I don't remember exactly what video it was, but he even has recordings of meetings from management of one of the scam companies You can tell he is a true hacker and has a real passion to do the right thing. I'd recommend his channel to anyone
- modi15 6y ago
  All countries have a deep corruption problem. Do you have any data to suggest that India's problem is bigger than others ?
  - dncornholio 6y ago
    A huge part of the scam market is directly traceable to India. It's even part of it's culture and society is what I was trying to say.
    - 6y ago
nromiun 6y ago
I agree with the report, but this part made me laugh. > annual report on global political rights and liberties by Freedom House, a US government-funded NGO that studies political freedom around the world > Beijing’s efforts “featured increased meddling in the domestic political discourse of foreign democracies, transnational extensions of rights abuses common in mainland China, and the demolition of Hong Kong’s liberties and legal autonomy”. Is this not hypocrisy? Specially after what happened in the USA when Trump lost? How does Freedom House thinks China meddles in foreign democracies? Propaganda from NGOs is an open secret and almost every country uses it these days.
- postingawayonhn 6y ago
  > Specially after what happened in the USA when Trump lost? The President Elect took office on the specified inauguration day?
  - nromiun 6y ago
    You mean after the President said the election was stolen from him and hundreds of his supporters stormed the US Capitol? The USA might think this is okay and forgot about it. But historically it was USA who criticized other countries where similar events occurred. If you think I am overreacting how about the comments from dozens of countries [0]. [0]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the_2021_storming_of_the_United_States_Capitol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the...
rramadass 6y ago
This "Think Tank", "Freedom House" is NOT impartial; their methodology is flawed, biased and highly subjective. I wouldn't take any of their reports seriously, particularly when it comes to a country like India whose "Diversity" on various societal axes are truly one of a kind. The situation on the ground is much more nuanced and reports like these only create more harm. Some criticisms; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House#Criticism https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/11/07/why-do-we-trust-certain-democracy-ratings-new-research-explains-hidden-biases/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/11/0... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271939022_Comparing_Freedom_House_Democracy_Scores_to_Alternative_Indices_and_Testing_for_Political_Bias_Are_US_Allies_Rated_as_More_Democratic_by_Freedom_House https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271939022_Comparing... https://www.heritage.org/global-politics/commentary/freedom-house-turns-partisan https://www.heritage.org/global-politics/commentary/freedom-...
- brnt 6y ago
  > their methodology is flawed, biased and highly subjective. That's not at all my takeaway. Note that you list The Heritage Foundation as a source, a well known opinion piece factory, far from impartial if you ever take a look at their funding structure.
  - rramadass 6y ago
    I have provided multiple sources including research; you have an issue with one. There are plenty more if you do the research.
    - brnt 6y ago
      None of your other sources support the claim you make, as I thought I had made clear.
      - rramadass 6y ago
        Not true at all. Please re-read the links and in particular; the WaPo article. It also provides links to other relevant articles/papers.
anti-shill 6y ago
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? matthew 7-3
Naushad 6y ago
This should be read with USCIRF Report, which recommends US Govt to designate India as 'country of particular concern' https://www.uscirf.gov/annual-reports?country=47 https://www.uscirf.gov/annual-reports?country=47
- wornohaulus 6y ago
  oh no !! another paki islamist .. scared of what kafirs will do .. what you have done to kafirs for centuries .. you and your entire abrahamic expansionist lot ..
  - dang 6y ago
    We've banned this account for using HN for religious and nationalistic flamewar. Definitely not what this site is for! If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
known 6y ago
"In democracy it's your vote in elections that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes" --Jallberg https://archive.is/h3TBP https://archive.is/h3TBP
wornohaulus 6y ago
oh no.. white man thinks he knows better than us brown slaves .. oh no !!
FlyingSnake 6y ago
I'm surprised to see the battleground HackerNews turns into when any topic about India is mentioned. India is going through a huge cultural shift, and the erstwhile liberal establishment is slowly being pushed out of their power seats by the rising Hindutva group. India is so vasly multi-faceted, multilayered, and complex, it's hard for western commentators like HNers to comment on it meaningfully without the necessary support. Most people just appeal to western democratic authority and try to see it from the lens of Dems/Reps, but it's not so simple. Just like a person living in Orissa can't meaningfully comment on say Pro 22, we can't expect Oregonians to comment meaningfully on democracy report on India. On top of that there are IT Cells, ISPR/ISI LARPers, Khalistani groups, Indian media, NYT/Wapo hit jobs, angry nationalists etc that turn the discourse into a shrill shouting match. One trend I'm noticing more and more is that India is taking a leaf out of China's books and paying less and less attention to the criticism western institutes. The next decade when India will rise in stature will make it more and more flippant about such issues. After all if any party (INC or BJP) that rules India, has enough clout and resources to enrich themselves and benefit from the rising fortunes of the country. Western commentators will be used as a classic "Us vs them" trope to further these claims.
- ra7 6y ago
  Couldn’t agree more with what you said. There’s definitely “us vs them” developing and that’s a direct result of western analysts looking everything through American lenses. India thinks and acts differently, and even it’s left-right political spectrum is different. It’s become a big mess of various actors trying to manipulate the discourse, exacerbated by social media.
  - FlyingSnake 6y ago
    NYT/WaPo/Guardian etc by their outdated colonial mindset, are literally handing juicy materials to Indian right on a platter. India's right is more socialist than western left, and they're increasingly using the colonial biases of western media to their advantage. Indian liberals are fumbling with their responses as they've lost patronage with the loss of INC and their traditional Bhadrolok attitude.
  - 6y ago
known 6y ago
https://mobile.twitter.com/sonaliranade https://mobile.twitter.com/sonaliranade depicts coherent/rational state of current affairs in India;
jangid 6y ago
Please share any first hand experience if you have faced any internet blockade anytime in last few years. I am seriously skeptical of the news portals now a days. The reason for my skepticism is that I have never faced internet censorship. I was in Delhi till last June.
- srean 6y ago
  Whether you face it or not depends on how often you have questioned or criticized the govt
  - jangid 6y ago
    I doubt the technical feasibility of this. How can internet be blocked only for one person in a city? There are gazillion ways to access internet.
    - srean 6y ago
      For the technicaly informed and with enough money yes one can find a way to circumvent censorship. Govts make sure or tries to make sure that such means are illegal - even better, morally equivalent to terrorism
- avh02 6y ago
  There's plenty of systematic[1] as well as "oh there are protests, let's turn off internet in the area" types of censorship[2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_India#Timeline_of_censorship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_India#T... [2]: https://www.dw.com/en/indias-internet-shutdowns-function-like-invisibility-cloaks/a-55572554 https://www.dw.com/en/indias-internet-shutdowns-function-lik... (arrived at from [1])
ashleshbiradar 6y ago
‘Neutralise Those Writing Against Us’: Inside The Govt’s Plan To Manage Media Perception https://www.medianama.com/2021/03/223-inside-govts-plan-to-manage-media-perception/ https://www.medianama.com/2021/03/223-inside-govts-plan-to-m...
techcorner 6y ago
I have read and re-read the guidelines and I really hope I don't cross the boundaries while writing this comment. This democracy report sounds like as if written by an Indian journalist Rana Ayyub. (https://twitter.com/ranaayyub https://twitter.com/ranaayyub) She writes columns in various western media outlets. Her whole career is built on the foundations of hating Modi. Various statements used in the article linked above, sounds eerily similar to what this lady writes time and again. While I don't give full marks to Modi administration, I do not believe the premise set in the article (or the report) at all. For all unbiased HNers reading this and unfamiliar with India, the issue at hand is very complex. You have to understand, there are vested interests around the world who want to disgrace the current administration in India by hook or crook. There are issues and problems on both the sides (Hindus and Muslims) but in case say in a murder, a Muslim is the victim, the machinery of the likes of Rana Ayyub have the power to flare it up on all possible International platforms giving spin to the story what suits their own narrative but things go unnoticed when a person from some other religion is a victim when Muslims kill someone. An example, Sometime back a Muslim politician abused a Hindu group; in return a Hindu leader abused Muslim God. A fatwa was issued and the Hindu leader (Kamlesh Tiwari) was murdered by Muslims within few years of uttering the words. His murder never became the hot topic in International media. I can go on and on to negate every statement in the linked article with supporting proofs if people here really want to listen with eyes and ears open. All I want to say this There is a lot more to it than meets the eye.
bobbydreamer 6y ago
One needs to remember "Each of us needs of all of us and all of us needs each of us".

148 points by undefined1 6y ago

Modi reminds me a lot of Tayyip Erdogan. Erdogan famously said democracy is like a train in that you get off once you've arrived at your destination. I see similar impulses from Modi and the BJP. I can very easily see Modi talking about how mandirs and shikharas are barracks and helmets. India is headed down a dangerous path and his perversion of Hinduism will not end well.

64bittechie 6y ago
The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government. The current ruling government has undertaken fundamental reforms that _all_ political parties have had in their manifestos but nobody has had the political will to execute on it. In fact in the past 7 years there hasn't been an single legitimate instance of corruption or scandal. If this is the dangerous path, please sign me up for more.
- noobermin 6y ago
  If you know about the history of fascism it has always had a base in a certain section of the middle class of a country aligned with some elites (as opposed to one rooted in the working class).
  - 64bittechie 6y ago
    [deleted]
    - dang 6y ago
      That can only lead massively off topic. Please don't take HN threads into generic political flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- md8 6y ago
  Exactly. I am suspecting that all these attacks are part of George Soros fake propaganda, which he does with every other country which doesnt listen to him. George Soros is a blood sucking leech.
  - dang 6y ago
    Yikes. Please keep flamewar comments off HN—especially classic ideological battle stuff. Also, please note the site guideline against calling names. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- temp345675634 6y ago
  Your point is exactly the things a lot of my Hindu friends say. Freedom and prosperity are two different things. China has/had a booming economy but look at the way they are treating Muslims or dissent. Yes, for mainstream Hindu nationalists, this is a great time, the government is fully for them. But with all due respect spare a thought for the minorities, journalists and even comedians who are sent to jail for no reason. What about CAA etc.?
  - 64bittechie 6y ago
    Yes, please explain "What about CAA"? Have you read it? What parts of the CAA are you opposed and why?
    - temp345675634 6y ago
      Classic "strawman". Miss the point and discuss some detail. From any independent point of view - CAA is simply "discrimination on the basis of religion". Also it can lead to creating a country where the government can render people "stateless" on their whim. Anyways, speaking of topics, what about "demonetisation" which was largely a failure, "freedom of press" etc. Finally, I want to live in a society where we can agree to disagree. Like with you, you have a valid opinion and I respect that, I hope you can too.
      - 64bittechie 6y ago
        So asking for specifics is a "strawman" argument? CAA is large and complex legislation. Pointing out flaws is a constructive process. I can agree to disagree with people but I would like to better understand your point of view. That was my inquiry. If you're unable to provide specifics, thats fine.
  - hesarenu 6y ago
    There has been demand for hindus to manage their own temples. This been a right winged party has done nothing on it for last 5 years. Not even in states they are ruling. As for comedians there should be demand to remove the blasphemy laws. That would stop those hurting religious cases.
- nkskalyan 6y ago
  "The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government." -> Do you have any proof for this? I have been for greater part of the 1st Modi regime. It was mostly a shitshow with Demonetisation.
- ecnerwala 6y ago
  "The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government." - Based on what metrics?
  - random314 6y ago
    India's GDP growth rate is not negative. Hence... Talking about middle class incomes is a total red herring. These are fairly typical diversionary tactics, to move the conversation from an uncomfortable topic such as fascism and human rights violations to more mundane discussions about economic metrics. If you have been in a couple of these discussions you will learn to avoid these diversionary traps :)
- random314 6y ago
  This is another way of saying that India does not have a negative GDP growth rate (covid19 excepted). Independent India has actually never had a negative growth rate ever, until 2020. This also ignores 3 fundamental facts 1. The middle class of India is a minority. The majority of India is lower class. 2. The growth rate has been declining ever since Modi has assumed power. 3. The current discussion is about fascism, suspension of habeas corpud, human rights violations and the usurpation of power from independent branches like the judiciary, election commission, enforcement directorate etc. - not the middle class income profile. Germany was also prosperous under Hitler.
- vijaybritto 6y ago
  Can you please cite with examples of growth in the past 7 years with comparison to the previous govt? This govt has been a failure in an astounding scale and the numbers confirm them. I'm not getting what you mean by "never been more prosperous"
- sifar 6y ago
  >> The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government Have you looked at the interest rates ? The government is crushing the very same middle class savers/pensioners who have supported them ardently. And the funny thing is they still continue to do so. This irony is lost on everybody.
- postingawayonhn 6y ago
  > The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government. It would be pretty worrying if they weren't.
neophyt3 6y ago
problem is not with BJP, its with opposition party who are using violence to put their point... India have too many many many many people who dont pay taxes at all and bjp is hurting them. I still don't understand why HN is turning into propaganda forum
- arn4v 6y ago
  > its with opposition party who are using violence to put their point. Care to provide sources for this?

saravana85 6y ago

Hope they dont ban hindustan times for this article.

shadycuz 6y ago
It will take a while, they are busy banning crypto and muslims right now.
- dang 6y ago
  Please do not take HN threads further into flamewar. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - shadycuz 6y ago
    Your censorship would fit right in in India.

qart 6y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwOGdxRnfK4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwOGdxRnfK4 Shekhar Gupta's analyses are generally good. The summary is at 25:30. Overall, rule of law is where India does poorly. That aside, I am not fond of these "democracy reports" when they are driven by opinions of a handful of people, rather than data-driven. As for rule of law, India's judicial backlogs are truly atrocious.

64bittechie 6y ago
Aside from backlogs, India's judiciary is alive and kicking. Better than some of the 'free' countries even. There are enough examples of the judiciary smacking down the ruling government.
aravindet 6y ago
The problems with the judiciary go far beyond backlogs; far too many judges seem to hold extreme personal prejudices and are not shy about basing their judgements on them. An ongoing controversy concerns the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court who offered an alleged rapist freedom in exchange for marrying his victim. The victim, who was underage at the time of the attacks, was "stalked, tied up, gagged, repeatedly raped and was threatened with being doused in petrol, set alight and have her brother killed". [1] Other judgements from 2020 that the Freedom House report refers to include the acquittal of allies of the ruling party for demolishing a 15th century mosque (despite overwhelming evidence) and granting the site of that mosque to allies of the ruling party to build a Hindu temple, a court case which bizarrely considered a Hindu deity one of the winning litigants. Previous judgements acquitted the current home minister and president of the ruling party of ordering extra-judicial killings and freed other members of the ruling party who were previously convicted of murders during religious riots. This is not to say all judgements fall into this pattern. There are undoubtedly a few highlights such as Shreya Singhal (online freedom of expression), 377 (decriminalization of homosexuality) and the Right to Privacy (is a thing). However these are few and far between. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/04/indias-top-judge-tells-accused-rapist-to-marry-victim-to-avoid-jail https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/04/indias-top-jud...
- 6y ago

JackPoach 6y ago

Probably not a popular opinion, but current Covid restrictions have limited personal freedoms in more meaningful ways than political changes in any country. You can live in a very liberal European country (ex. Netherlands or Denmark) and have fewer freedoms with regards to your ability to go outside where you need to go than 'a less democratic country' with lax covid policies. Feels really strange. Also, it's a very western view to a country to be less or more democratic, depending on how authoritarian a current leader is. You can talk to an average person in India, Turkey or Hungary and very few will feel that they are now less free because, say, Orban or Modi is in charge (although they may totally dislike their leaders).

sa1 6y ago
I had the privilege to be able to leave the country this year, the lack of freedom inside India had become personally stifling. I went from lax Covid policies to a locked down city, and I feel freer.
- ralusek 6y ago
  What was the lack of freedom you experienced in India? Not asking rhetorically.
  - avh02 6y ago
    not the OP, but on my few (yes, tourist) visits to India - I've found things done that try to watch or "guide" you to do things a certain way. Examples: getting a phone number as tourist was complex, we decided to keep roaming for 5 weeks. every hotel you check in to asks you to write down where you came from and where you're going next. all so they can probably throw it in the trash. we didn't know where we were going next half the time, we made it up. The amount of personal data required to do just about anything. at the airports they have staff that will sit and make random marks on your boarding pass and write things down, but not consistently. for me it felt very much like India was a "state that thinks it's in control of everything but doesn't have a real, substantive grasp on anything" - yet as a foreigner, i felt very much managed. all opinion ^^

imwillofficial 6y ago

I love how the west casts aspersions on other nations as “free” or “not free” While they openly conduct regime change around the world and can’t even have any semblance of an honest election.

meddlepal 6y ago
> can’t even have any semblance of an honest election. Expand on this please.
- dang 6y ago
  Please no. It can only lead massively off topic, and is certain to turn nasty. We're trying to avoid that here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 64bittechie 6y ago
  1. Spreading voter misinformation 2. Delegitimizing mail-in ballots 3. Delegitimizing election officials 4. Calling up state election officials to change votes in favor of Trump 5. Filing 200+ BS lawsuits questioning the authenticity of ballots 6. Disenfranchising minorities by gerrymandering 7. 250+ bills have been introduced in various states restricting voter rights Do you seriously want me to go on?
dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents. It leads to predictable discussion, and usually nasty places, which isn't what this site is supposed to be for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- 64bittechie 6y ago
  So you're fine allowing inflammatory, garbage reports on HackerNews but anything critical of the said garbage is not allowed?

bshepard 6y ago

For recorded history, the subcontinent has been politically unified for -- at most -- 250 years. There are many different nations inside the "Republic of India." Some of these people are already seeking independence (https://referendum2020.org/ https://referendum2020.org/) and more will join them. In retrospect, "India" will perhaps seem akin to the Austro-Hungarian Empire or the Ottoman empire: a cage of nations. One friend of mine in Kolkata has informed me that there is more and more consideration of the "Himalayan Reconfiguration" -- a peaceful liberation of the nations trapped inside of the "Republic of India."

obiwanpallav1 6y ago
The website link doesn't work and the term "Himalayan Reconfiguration" doesn't provide any contextual search results. Kolkata is a pretty populous city. Along with "Himalayan Reconfiguration" the people there can come up with "Andes Reconfiguration" and "Rocky Reconfiguration" as well. Please don't add comments like this to market the divisive ideas enveloped inside the pseudo armchair philosophy.
mschuster91 6y ago
> In retrospect, "India" will perhaps seem akin to the Austro-Hungarian Empire or the Ottoman empire: a cage of nations. As a half-Croat, this reminds me also of a more recent example: the Balkans. Let's just hope and pray to whatever gods we adhere to that, should the situation come to the worst, it won't end in Balkan-level bloodshed.
- bshepard 6y ago
  Yes, very profound point, completely agree.
64bittechie 6y ago
Sure. Its been decades that people have been hoping India would disintegrate. Unity in diversity. One India. Jai Hind!
peteretep 6y ago
I think you can make a pretty compelling case that the Delhi Sultanate and the Mughal empire were cases of politically unified India for several hundred years before that.

known 6y ago

Modi regime intention is to preserve RSS/BRAHMIN/BANIA hegemony/corruption in India as evident from https://www.quora.com/Which-caste-is-looting-India/answers/220938900 https://www.quora.com/Which-caste-is-looting-India/answers/2... and https://www.quora.com/Is-Rajput-a-more-powerful-caste-since-history-until-now/answer/Taruni-Adarsh-1 https://www.quora.com/Is-Rajput-a-more-powerful-caste-since-...

rajeshp1986 6y ago
Those are random quora posts. How is anything evident from that? Even all of the data from the 2nd Quora post is false. It is neither verified nor those posts link to any source.

dang 6y ago

All: Indian politics has recently been overtaking even U.S. politics for flamewar and unsubstantive comments in HN threads. India is an important, amazing country. Developments there are of interest and on-topic for HN. But ideological, nationalistic, racial, and (god forbid) religious battle is definitely not on topic for HN. Therefore, if you plan to comment in threads like this, make sure you're up to date on the site guidelines, that you have something thoughtful to say, and are coming from a place of curiosity. That's the core value of this site. Extra tip: if you're hot under the collar, wait to cool down before posting. These issues are intense. It's easy and all too human to get activated, so we each need to do some internal processing before taking to the comments for discussion. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

64bittechie 6y ago

Freedom House report has many factual inaccuracies on key points such as CAA, NRC. The report seems to be extremely biased and based on heresay instead of factual evidence. > Many observers believe the register’s purpose is to disenfranchise Muslim voters by effectively classifying them as illegal immigrants. Importantly, Muslims disproportionately lack documentation attesting to their place of birth. Undocumented non-Muslims, meanwhile, would be eligible for citizenship through a fast-track process under the CAA. Who are these observers? What is their standing? Have Indian muslims been denied citizenship rights? Factually, more Indian Hindu residents have been left off of NRC due to lack of documentation than Muslims. FreedomHouse doesn't represent a balanced opinion here. People, irrespective of their religion, are allowed to acquire Indian citizenship after 12 years. CAA makes special provisions for some religious minorities. Thats all. More importantly on the topic of NRC, the current government did not invent it. This had been in the works for years before the BJP became the ruling party. Critics of India even criticized the government for Aadhar as "infringing "upon civil liberties. The same critics have failed to mention the benefits that these systems have yielded Indian citizens irrespective of religion. That said, given the shit show that the US "democracy" has seen for the past 4 years, I am surprised to see FreedomHouse listing the US as a "free" democracy where the president and the ruling Republican party were not only responsible for spreading voter misinformation, opposing a free and fair election, causing an insurrection and failed to hold anybody accountable for it.

random314 6y ago
Denaturalization of 2 million citizens is not a joke that can be brushed away lightly. The denaturalized will either be locked up in concentration camps for life or lose their ability to vote, own property and work. Either way they will become slave laborers for the rest of their lives, incarcerated or otherwise. Large scale denaturalization has only been carried out recently in apartheid south Africa, nazi Germany and Burmese militia. Denaturalization of Hindus does not make the system "fair". They do however have a way back via CAA. The hindu victims are typically lower caste Dalits, for whom the upper caste middle class Hindus typically have very little sympathy. Stories from Indias largest concentration camp for denaturalized citizens. https://thewire.in/rights/assam-goalpara-detention-centre-nrc-citizenship https://thewire.in/rights/assam-goalpara-detention-centre-nr...

dartharva 6y ago

Okay, the comments here are not something I'd have expected to see on HN. Kudos to dang for his attempts at keeping things in control. Bringing the discussion more suited to HN, India has terrible ratings on Internet freedom: https://freedomhouse.org/country/india/freedom-net/2020 https://freedomhouse.org/country/india/freedom-net/2020 The country's administration blocks websites and cuts internet connections en masse, without warnings and legitimate reasons. Also, its new content regulation and liability laws threaten the concepts of open internet: https://blog.mozilla.org/netpolicy/2021/03/02/indias-new-intermediary-liability-and-digital-media-regulations-will-harm-the-open-internet/ https://blog.mozilla.org/netpolicy/2021/03/02/indias-new-int...

64bittechie 6y ago
You're citing freedomhouse which is a dumpster fire of unsubstantiated content. Do you have a better source to cite?

ghoomketu 6y ago

This article from PG from a very long time ago called "Keep your identity small" seems very relevant whenever issues like "capitol hill", "indian democracy", "muslim religion", "trump", etc are posted here for discussion. You can't change other people's opinion about their nation, religion, politics, etc even if you believe you have all the facts and most of the time it just devolves into a flamewar (1) (1) http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html

dang 6y ago
I haven't read that essay since it came out, but I always found that it interesting, because non-identification is a well-known spiritual teaching, indeed a well-known Indian spiritual teaching — but pg seemed to get at it from first principles.
ralusek 6y ago
No practical identity smaller than the individual; a concept that has been a foundational pillar of liberalism until, like, 10 years ago. Collectivism of all kinds is destroying western civilization.
boruto 6y ago
Thanks for the link. The article hits the nail. That was a meaningful read.

dncornholio 6y ago

India has a deep corruption problem. There's a real incentive to make money off scams and the government is giving a blind eye. A guy infiltrated some of the scam companies, who where all in India, using their remote desktop software against them and got feeds of all the webcams and microphones in the building. Multiple reports to police and most companies still runnning to this day.

iKevinShah 6y ago
wow. Which story was this? Would love to read about this.
- Stratoscope 6y ago
  There are a bunch of them here: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=scam+office https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=scam+office
- dncornholio 6y ago
  It's Jim Browning: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBNG0osIBAprVcZZ3ic84vw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBNG0osIBAprVcZZ3ic84vw I don't remember exactly what video it was, but he even has recordings of meetings from management of one of the scam companies You can tell he is a true hacker and has a real passion to do the right thing. I'd recommend his channel to anyone
modi15 6y ago
All countries have a deep corruption problem. Do you have any data to suggest that India's problem is bigger than others ?
- dncornholio 6y ago
  A huge part of the scam market is directly traceable to India. It's even part of it's culture and society is what I was trying to say.
  - 6y ago

nromiun 6y ago

I agree with the report, but this part made me laugh. > annual report on global political rights and liberties by Freedom House, a US government-funded NGO that studies political freedom around the world > Beijing’s efforts “featured increased meddling in the domestic political discourse of foreign democracies, transnational extensions of rights abuses common in mainland China, and the demolition of Hong Kong’s liberties and legal autonomy”. Is this not hypocrisy? Specially after what happened in the USA when Trump lost? How does Freedom House thinks China meddles in foreign democracies? Propaganda from NGOs is an open secret and almost every country uses it these days.

postingawayonhn 6y ago
> Specially after what happened in the USA when Trump lost? The President Elect took office on the specified inauguration day?
- nromiun 6y ago
  You mean after the President said the election was stolen from him and hundreds of his supporters stormed the US Capitol? The USA might think this is okay and forgot about it. But historically it was USA who criticized other countries where similar events occurred. If you think I am overreacting how about the comments from dozens of countries [0]. [0]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the_2021_storming_of_the_United_States_Capitol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_reactions_to_the...

rramadass 6y ago

This "Think Tank", "Freedom House" is NOT impartial; their methodology is flawed, biased and highly subjective. I wouldn't take any of their reports seriously, particularly when it comes to a country like India whose "Diversity" on various societal axes are truly one of a kind. The situation on the ground is much more nuanced and reports like these only create more harm. Some criticisms; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House#Criticism https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/11/07/why-do-we-trust-certain-democracy-ratings-new-research-explains-hidden-biases/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/11/0... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271939022_Comparing_Freedom_House_Democracy_Scores_to_Alternative_Indices_and_Testing_for_Political_Bias_Are_US_Allies_Rated_as_More_Democratic_by_Freedom_House https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271939022_Comparing... https://www.heritage.org/global-politics/commentary/freedom-house-turns-partisan https://www.heritage.org/global-politics/commentary/freedom-...

brnt 6y ago
> their methodology is flawed, biased and highly subjective. That's not at all my takeaway. Note that you list The Heritage Foundation as a source, a well known opinion piece factory, far from impartial if you ever take a look at their funding structure.
- rramadass 6y ago
  I have provided multiple sources including research; you have an issue with one. There are plenty more if you do the research.
  - brnt 6y ago
    None of your other sources support the claim you make, as I thought I had made clear.
    - rramadass 6y ago
      Not true at all. Please re-read the links and in particular; the WaPo article. It also provides links to other relevant articles/papers.

anti-shill 6y ago

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? matthew 7-3

Naushad 6y ago

This should be read with USCIRF Report, which recommends US Govt to designate India as 'country of particular concern' https://www.uscirf.gov/annual-reports?country=47 https://www.uscirf.gov/annual-reports?country=47

wornohaulus 6y ago
oh no !! another paki islamist .. scared of what kafirs will do .. what you have done to kafirs for centuries .. you and your entire abrahamic expansionist lot ..
- dang 6y ago
  We've banned this account for using HN for religious and nationalistic flamewar. Definitely not what this site is for! If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

known 6y ago

"In democracy it's your vote in elections that counts; In feudalism it's your count that votes" --Jallberg https://archive.is/h3TBP https://archive.is/h3TBP

wornohaulus 6y ago

oh no.. white man thinks he knows better than us brown slaves .. oh no !!

FlyingSnake 6y ago

I'm surprised to see the battleground HackerNews turns into when any topic about India is mentioned. India is going through a huge cultural shift, and the erstwhile liberal establishment is slowly being pushed out of their power seats by the rising Hindutva group. India is so vasly multi-faceted, multilayered, and complex, it's hard for western commentators like HNers to comment on it meaningfully without the necessary support. Most people just appeal to western democratic authority and try to see it from the lens of Dems/Reps, but it's not so simple. Just like a person living in Orissa can't meaningfully comment on say Pro 22, we can't expect Oregonians to comment meaningfully on democracy report on India. On top of that there are IT Cells, ISPR/ISI LARPers, Khalistani groups, Indian media, NYT/Wapo hit jobs, angry nationalists etc that turn the discourse into a shrill shouting match. One trend I'm noticing more and more is that India is taking a leaf out of China's books and paying less and less attention to the criticism western institutes. The next decade when India will rise in stature will make it more and more flippant about such issues. After all if any party (INC or BJP) that rules India, has enough clout and resources to enrich themselves and benefit from the rising fortunes of the country. Western commentators will be used as a classic "Us vs them" trope to further these claims.

ra7 6y ago
Couldn’t agree more with what you said. There’s definitely “us vs them” developing and that’s a direct result of western analysts looking everything through American lenses. India thinks and acts differently, and even it’s left-right political spectrum is different. It’s become a big mess of various actors trying to manipulate the discourse, exacerbated by social media.
- FlyingSnake 6y ago
  NYT/WaPo/Guardian etc by their outdated colonial mindset, are literally handing juicy materials to Indian right on a platter. India's right is more socialist than western left, and they're increasingly using the colonial biases of western media to their advantage. Indian liberals are fumbling with their responses as they've lost patronage with the loss of INC and their traditional Bhadrolok attitude.
- 6y ago

known 6y ago

https://mobile.twitter.com/sonaliranade https://mobile.twitter.com/sonaliranade depicts coherent/rational state of current affairs in India;

jangid 6y ago

Please share any first hand experience if you have faced any internet blockade anytime in last few years. I am seriously skeptical of the news portals now a days. The reason for my skepticism is that I have never faced internet censorship. I was in Delhi till last June.

srean 6y ago
Whether you face it or not depends on how often you have questioned or criticized the govt
- jangid 6y ago
  I doubt the technical feasibility of this. How can internet be blocked only for one person in a city? There are gazillion ways to access internet.
  - srean 6y ago
    For the technicaly informed and with enough money yes one can find a way to circumvent censorship. Govts make sure or tries to make sure that such means are illegal - even better, morally equivalent to terrorism
avh02 6y ago
There's plenty of systematic[1] as well as "oh there are protests, let's turn off internet in the area" types of censorship[2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_India#Timeline_of_censorship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_India#T... [2]: https://www.dw.com/en/indias-internet-shutdowns-function-like-invisibility-cloaks/a-55572554 https://www.dw.com/en/indias-internet-shutdowns-function-lik... (arrived at from [1])

ashleshbiradar 6y ago

‘Neutralise Those Writing Against Us’: Inside The Govt’s Plan To Manage Media Perception https://www.medianama.com/2021/03/223-inside-govts-plan-to-manage-media-perception/ https://www.medianama.com/2021/03/223-inside-govts-plan-to-m...

techcorner 6y ago

I have read and re-read the guidelines and I really hope I don't cross the boundaries while writing this comment. This democracy report sounds like as if written by an Indian journalist Rana Ayyub. (https://twitter.com/ranaayyub https://twitter.com/ranaayyub) She writes columns in various western media outlets. Her whole career is built on the foundations of hating Modi. Various statements used in the article linked above, sounds eerily similar to what this lady writes time and again. While I don't give full marks to Modi administration, I do not believe the premise set in the article (or the report) at all. For all unbiased HNers reading this and unfamiliar with India, the issue at hand is very complex. You have to understand, there are vested interests around the world who want to disgrace the current administration in India by hook or crook. There are issues and problems on both the sides (Hindus and Muslims) but in case say in a murder, a Muslim is the victim, the machinery of the likes of Rana Ayyub have the power to flare it up on all possible International platforms giving spin to the story what suits their own narrative but things go unnoticed when a person from some other religion is a victim when Muslims kill someone. An example, Sometime back a Muslim politician abused a Hindu group; in return a Hindu leader abused Muslim God. A fatwa was issued and the Hindu leader (Kamlesh Tiwari) was murdered by Muslims within few years of uttering the words. His murder never became the hot topic in International media. I can go on and on to negate every statement in the linked article with supporting proofs if people here really want to listen with eyes and ears open. All I want to say this There is a lot more to it than meets the eye.

bobbydreamer 6y ago

One needs to remember "Each of us needs of all of us and all of us needs each of us".