5 ms·

Your last sentence should read: ... as previous versions of Tesla autopilot have done. Talking about any one of these systems via their branding as if they ar

by gfodor 6y ago

Your last sentence should read: ... as previous versions of Tesla autopilot have done. Talking about any one of these systems via their branding as if they are a singular fixed thing (and not a network of software versions and models under continual update) leads to bad mental models.

Danieru 6y ago
Here is your "but this time it is fine" Autopilot attempting to murder yet another driver just 9 months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfmAG4dk-rU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfmAG4dk-rU
- ineedasername 6y ago
  It looks like the car at least tried to stop. I'm sure some software engineer at Tesla saw that and said "Yes! A real-world UAT on the latest don't hit stationary objects point release! Now I can close out that story in Jira."
- jcims 6y ago
  What a bunch of zombies holy moly.
- zhte415 6y ago
  I suppose we need more captcha images of overturned trucks rather than a brain behind the wheel.
- jiofih 6y ago
  Here is a human driving into 36 cars: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u5KgLVh-4Mg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u5KgLVh-4Mg Here is another doing a burnout and crashing into a store, a month ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tJu5TZ6rwXg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tJu5TZ6rwXg Human-driven truck runs straight into a 100-car pile up, 1 month ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VqNy7v5YekM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VqNy7v5YekM Beat that, Tesla!
  - bildung 6y ago
    This isn't how statistics work. Teslas are only about .1% of all cars in the US, and only a fraction of those have autopilot on. If autopilot is as safe as a human driver, we'd expect to see about 10000 cases of human stupidity for every case of autopilot stupidity.
    - jiofih 6y ago
      That’s exactly my point. There are millions of Teslas on the road, a single incident nine months ago means very little. You will find thousands of these for humans in the past month alone. Teslas per-mile incident rate is currently about 1/10th that of human drivers.
      - bildung 6y ago
        > There are millions of Teslas on the road, It's only 1.4 million ever sold worldwide. > Teslas per-mile incident rate is currently about 1/10th that of human drivers. But the reason for that is obvious, isn't it? It is strongly encouraged to activate autopilot in trivial situations (e.g. lane assist on interstates), whereas most dangerous conditions (rain, freezing, bad roads, road works and so on) and their higher incident share is almost completely in the human driver column.
        jiofih 6y ago
        These cars have driven about 4 billion miles with AP on, only six confirmed AP fatalities total since 2016. If it was such a hazard you’d expect to see hundreds or thousands of serious incidents.
        bildung 6y ago
        Its at 15 deaths for currently 3.3 billion miles driven. The number 6 comes from Tesla itself, which isn't exactly in a neutral position. Thats 4.5 deaths per billion mile driven. No idea about the US, but in Denmark the deaths per billion mile of highway roads driven is 0.7. In other words: On a European freeway equivalent you are over 6x more likely to die from Teslas autopilot than if you would drive yourself.
- jacquesm 6y ago
  What is really amazing about that video is the people who must obviously be witnessing a really bad crash but just keep in driving.
jowday 6y ago
Here's a Tesla hitting a highway wall from last week. https://youtu.be/XgzpAN4qsmg https://youtu.be/XgzpAN4qsmg
- ineedasername 6y ago
  Yes, but that's not the old version. The latest versions are failing in new and interesting ways. /s
- ogre_codes 6y ago
  The Tesla should have caught that. But that is the stupidest way of temporarily? (I hope) relaning a highway ever. What were they thinking? One of those situations where Musks insistence on not using LIDAR is clearly wrong.
  - jiofih 6y ago
    The car has radar which can see that wall. It’s most likely a problem of what to do, which humans face just the same - do you swerve into the right lane potentially causing a much worse accident?
    - aembleton 6y ago
      It could check its side cameras first.
    - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
      Can radar see concrete? I thought radar was only reliable for metal obstacles.
    - ogre_codes 6y ago
      I believe Teslas rely 100% on cameras for this type of maneuvers. Regardless, it didn’t need to swerve into the next lane, just move to the right 6 inches in the same lane.
  - Shivetya 6y ago
    LIDAR would not have made any difference if the car is not coded to handle the situation, let alone how in the hell is that even legal? We can only make an assessment of what the car saw if he were lucky enough to have the screen data as seen in car if not all telemetry from its recordings. I own a TM3 and I do not have the "FSD beta" that is in limited testing. I will say that the car display portion of the UI really does not impress me in what it shows and does not show. As in it is damn happy to show cones and garbage cans but I have instances where it showed me cones front and back of a vehicle but did not draw the vehicle in between. Same with a floating garbage can where sometimes the loader was visible but the truck itself would wink in and out. I really wish people would quit ascribing super natural abilities to LIDAR let alone superiority. Plus I really want to see studies done which show the impact having hundreds of LIDAR equipped vehicles would have on people, animals, and even insect, life. (then again how many vehicles in traffic does it take to cause an issue for them)

by gfodor 6y ago

Danieru 6y ago

Here is your "but this time it is fine" Autopilot attempting to murder yet another driver just 9 months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfmAG4dk-rU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfmAG4dk-rU

ineedasername 6y ago
It looks like the car at least tried to stop. I'm sure some software engineer at Tesla saw that and said "Yes! A real-world UAT on the latest don't hit stationary objects point release! Now I can close out that story in Jira."
jcims 6y ago
What a bunch of zombies holy moly.
zhte415 6y ago
I suppose we need more captcha images of overturned trucks rather than a brain behind the wheel.
jiofih 6y ago
Here is a human driving into 36 cars: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u5KgLVh-4Mg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u5KgLVh-4Mg Here is another doing a burnout and crashing into a store, a month ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tJu5TZ6rwXg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tJu5TZ6rwXg Human-driven truck runs straight into a 100-car pile up, 1 month ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VqNy7v5YekM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VqNy7v5YekM Beat that, Tesla!
- bildung 6y ago
  This isn't how statistics work. Teslas are only about .1% of all cars in the US, and only a fraction of those have autopilot on. If autopilot is as safe as a human driver, we'd expect to see about 10000 cases of human stupidity for every case of autopilot stupidity.
  - jiofih 6y ago
    That’s exactly my point. There are millions of Teslas on the road, a single incident nine months ago means very little. You will find thousands of these for humans in the past month alone. Teslas per-mile incident rate is currently about 1/10th that of human drivers.
    - bildung 6y ago
      > There are millions of Teslas on the road, It's only 1.4 million ever sold worldwide. > Teslas per-mile incident rate is currently about 1/10th that of human drivers. But the reason for that is obvious, isn't it? It is strongly encouraged to activate autopilot in trivial situations (e.g. lane assist on interstates), whereas most dangerous conditions (rain, freezing, bad roads, road works and so on) and their higher incident share is almost completely in the human driver column.
      - jiofih 6y ago
        These cars have driven about 4 billion miles with AP on, only six confirmed AP fatalities total since 2016. If it was such a hazard you’d expect to see hundreds or thousands of serious incidents.
        bildung 6y ago
        Its at 15 deaths for currently 3.3 billion miles driven. The number 6 comes from Tesla itself, which isn't exactly in a neutral position. Thats 4.5 deaths per billion mile driven. No idea about the US, but in Denmark the deaths per billion mile of highway roads driven is 0.7. In other words: On a European freeway equivalent you are over 6x more likely to die from Teslas autopilot than if you would drive yourself.
jacquesm 6y ago
What is really amazing about that video is the people who must obviously be witnessing a really bad crash but just keep in driving.

jowday 6y ago

Here's a Tesla hitting a highway wall from last week. https://youtu.be/XgzpAN4qsmg https://youtu.be/XgzpAN4qsmg

ineedasername 6y ago
Yes, but that's not the old version. The latest versions are failing in new and interesting ways. /s
ogre_codes 6y ago
The Tesla should have caught that. But that is the stupidest way of temporarily? (I hope) relaning a highway ever. What were they thinking? One of those situations where Musks insistence on not using LIDAR is clearly wrong.
- jiofih 6y ago
  The car has radar which can see that wall. It’s most likely a problem of what to do, which humans face just the same - do you swerve into the right lane potentially causing a much worse accident?
  - aembleton 6y ago
    It could check its side cameras first.
  - DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
    Can radar see concrete? I thought radar was only reliable for metal obstacles.
  - ogre_codes 6y ago
    I believe Teslas rely 100% on cameras for this type of maneuvers. Regardless, it didn’t need to swerve into the next lane, just move to the right 6 inches in the same lane.
- Shivetya 6y ago
  LIDAR would not have made any difference if the car is not coded to handle the situation, let alone how in the hell is that even legal? We can only make an assessment of what the car saw if he were lucky enough to have the screen data as seen in car if not all telemetry from its recordings. I own a TM3 and I do not have the "FSD beta" that is in limited testing. I will say that the car display portion of the UI really does not impress me in what it shows and does not show. As in it is damn happy to show cones and garbage cans but I have instances where it showed me cones front and back of a vehicle but did not draw the vehicle in between. Same with a floating garbage can where sometimes the loader was visible but the truck itself would wink in and out. I really wish people would quit ascribing super natural abilities to LIDAR let alone superiority. Plus I really want to see studies done which show the impact having hundreds of LIDAR equipped vehicles would have on people, animals, and even insect, life. (then again how many vehicles in traffic does it take to cause an issue for them)