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But our society has taken a weird turn. Instead of recognizing the importance of this job, respecting stay-at-home parents and encouraging as many families as p

But our society has taken a weird turn. Instead of recognizing the importance of this job, respecting stay-at-home parents and encouraging as many families as possible to invest in the future by taking the best care of their kids, we have effectively destroyed it. I don’t accept the “we” here. Who did what exactly to “destroy” it? And thanks to supply/demand, it's now expected for both spouses to work if you want a regular lifestyle with regular jobs. So unless you are considerably richer than your neighbors, your chances are very weak. I don’t understand what you are saying here. At the bottom end, sure it makes sense, but not when you are talking to a bunch of people in the tech industry. If you have a household income of $200k/year you can live a “regular” $200k/year household lifestyle in a $200k/year house in a $200k/year neighborhood. That’s true whether that $200k/year comes from one earner or two. In fact, if it comes from one earner you are a little better off tax-wise (because of the social security cap.) It’s true that you can’t live a $400k/year lifestyle if your household is only making $200k/year, but so what?

RestlessMind 6y ago
It is not just about the absolute income number but also about job security. If I make 200K today but am not guaranteed to make the same number 10-15 years down the line, it is better if my spouse works as well so that there is more chances of at least one of us having a job if other one gets fired or laid off or offshored. In 50's and 60's, one could reliably count on their job and pension for the lifetime, thus allowing psychological security needed for planning a family. > I don’t accept the “we” here. Who did what exactly to “destroy” it? Companies decided to outsource manufacturing jobs to third world countries and politicians accepted free trade in the name of some stupid theories about "greater wealth" creation, without pausing to think about a fairer distribution of that extra wealth. That led to stagnation of lower- and middle- middle class in the West while yielding vast gains to the rich Westerners and the newly middle-class people in developing countries.
- necovek 6y ago
  Many commenters seem to ignore the fact that lots of quality products produced in the USA at higher cost (higher wages) were exported at those high prices to countries who had a hard job paying for them. Because of their high prices, competition naturally occurred in those international markets, which led to a downward pressure on USA product prices, and ultimately wages, and job offshoring. Basically, the global economy is a cycle: the USA was, for the large part, first to benefit by selling "overpriced" (to other countries' standards) products, but markets have pushed those products out, before readmitting them at somewhat reduced prices. It is to the benefit of the US production for wages and spending power to grow throughout the world, since that leads to increased exports at — now — affordable prices for the world! Heck, it's a tactic employed in both recent crises to get US products to sell (2008 and 2020, USD was at the lowest level compared to eg. EUR for a while): basically, by decreasing the international value of USD, you are increasing the spending power of other countries willing to buy US products. The only thing uncertain is if we ever get to wage parity throughout the world (unlikely at 100%, but I think effects would be felt even at 50%), will we prosper or fall?
Benjamin_Dobell 6y ago
> That’s true whether that $200k/year comes from one earner or two. In fact, if it comes from one earner you are a little better off tax-wise (because of the social security cap.) Wait. What? Where are you that does not have tax brackets? Is that common in the US? In Australia you are substantially penalised for being a household that draws all your income from one person. It's not even close. And it's infuriating. One salary $200k/yr, in pocket after tax = $135,333 One salary $100k/yr, in pocket after tax = $75,813 Multiplied by two = $151,626 That's $1,385.50 difference in available income per month.
- Negitivefrags 6y ago
  In the US they have the concept of filing jointly. If you have one partner earning a lot more than the other then you can get tax bracket advantages of both when you pool your incomes together.
  - Benjamin_Dobell 6y ago
    Interesting. I knew some countries in Europe had joint filing. I was unaware that the US did. Does anyone know what the requirements are for the non-working individual to be considered for joint filing? Say if you're on a working visa, but your spouse is not, presumably you don't get the tax benefits?
    - mariojv 6y ago
      I believe you'd still be able to file jointly if you're on a working visa and your spouse is not working, even if they don't reside in the US. The only caveat is that their worldwide income would be subject to US taxation if they have income from abroad. https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/family/claiming-a-non-citizen-spouse-and-children-on-your-taxes-/L6VM4IzTQ https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/family/claiming-a-non-c... "In general, resident aliens are taxed just like U.S. citizens. You would list a resident-alien spouse on your return and provide his or her Social Security number (SSN). If your spouse is not eligible for a Social Security number, he or she will need to apply for an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) from the IRS. If your spouse is a nonresident alien, you can treat your spouse as a resident alien for tax purposes. If you choose this option, you can file a joint tax return with your spouse and have an increased standard deduction. You increase your standard deduction, but all your spouse's worldwide income will be taxed by the United States." Reference on "Standard Deduction": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deduction

RestlessMind 6y ago

It is not just about the absolute income number but also about job security. If I make 200K today but am not guaranteed to make the same number 10-15 years down the line, it is better if my spouse works as well so that there is more chances of at least one of us having a job if other one gets fired or laid off or offshored. In 50's and 60's, one could reliably count on their job and pension for the lifetime, thus allowing psychological security needed for planning a family. > I don’t accept the “we” here. Who did what exactly to “destroy” it? Companies decided to outsource manufacturing jobs to third world countries and politicians accepted free trade in the name of some stupid theories about "greater wealth" creation, without pausing to think about a fairer distribution of that extra wealth. That led to stagnation of lower- and middle- middle class in the West while yielding vast gains to the rich Westerners and the newly middle-class people in developing countries.

necovek 6y ago
Many commenters seem to ignore the fact that lots of quality products produced in the USA at higher cost (higher wages) were exported at those high prices to countries who had a hard job paying for them. Because of their high prices, competition naturally occurred in those international markets, which led to a downward pressure on USA product prices, and ultimately wages, and job offshoring. Basically, the global economy is a cycle: the USA was, for the large part, first to benefit by selling "overpriced" (to other countries' standards) products, but markets have pushed those products out, before readmitting them at somewhat reduced prices. It is to the benefit of the US production for wages and spending power to grow throughout the world, since that leads to increased exports at — now — affordable prices for the world! Heck, it's a tactic employed in both recent crises to get US products to sell (2008 and 2020, USD was at the lowest level compared to eg. EUR for a while): basically, by decreasing the international value of USD, you are increasing the spending power of other countries willing to buy US products. The only thing uncertain is if we ever get to wage parity throughout the world (unlikely at 100%, but I think effects would be felt even at 50%), will we prosper or fall?

Benjamin_Dobell 6y ago

> That’s true whether that $200k/year comes from one earner or two. In fact, if it comes from one earner you are a little better off tax-wise (because of the social security cap.) Wait. What? Where are you that does not have tax brackets? Is that common in the US? In Australia you are substantially penalised for being a household that draws all your income from one person. It's not even close. And it's infuriating. One salary $200k/yr, in pocket after tax = $135,333 One salary $100k/yr, in pocket after tax = $75,813 Multiplied by two = $151,626 That's $1,385.50 difference in available income per month.

Negitivefrags 6y ago
In the US they have the concept of filing jointly. If you have one partner earning a lot more than the other then you can get tax bracket advantages of both when you pool your incomes together.
- Benjamin_Dobell 6y ago
  Interesting. I knew some countries in Europe had joint filing. I was unaware that the US did. Does anyone know what the requirements are for the non-working individual to be considered for joint filing? Say if you're on a working visa, but your spouse is not, presumably you don't get the tax benefits?
  - mariojv 6y ago
    I believe you'd still be able to file jointly if you're on a working visa and your spouse is not working, even if they don't reside in the US. The only caveat is that their worldwide income would be subject to US taxation if they have income from abroad. https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/family/claiming-a-non-citizen-spouse-and-children-on-your-taxes-/L6VM4IzTQ https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/family/claiming-a-non-c... "In general, resident aliens are taxed just like U.S. citizens. You would list a resident-alien spouse on your return and provide his or her Social Security number (SSN). If your spouse is not eligible for a Social Security number, he or she will need to apply for an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) from the IRS. If your spouse is a nonresident alien, you can treat your spouse as a resident alien for tax purposes. If you choose this option, you can file a joint tax return with your spouse and have an increased standard deduction. You increase your standard deduction, but all your spouse's worldwide income will be taxed by the United States." Reference on "Standard Deduction": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deduction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deduction