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I don't know where you're from but where I live "guys" is a completely neutral term for any group of humans. My wife used it today on a call to three other fema

by string 6y ago

I don't know where you're from but where I live "guys" is a completely neutral term for any group of humans. My wife used it today on a call to three other females.

artursapek 6y ago
It sounds like your wife and those three females don't have crippling self-esteem problems, good for them.
tartoran 6y ago
Wait until smiling or even looking at someone will be deemed offensive if you don’t do it the only right way. Cameras will be everywhere and and wrong look will be penalized harshly
katbyte 6y ago
And yet it keeps coming up at the american based global company i work at as a term many women do not like or consider gender neutral, consider maybe that there are people outside your limited social circle who view it differently and in large companies spanning the globe they need to take into account other cultures and people who are not in america?
Spivak 6y ago
It’s really region dependent. But since “girls” definitely isn’t gender neutral to you all you have to do is reverse it to understand the potential awkwardness. Imagine you took a job somewhere where in their region your field was overwhelmingly female dominated and “hey girls” was considered gender neutral. And you already felt pretty excluded being the only guy on the team and one of less than 10 guys in the whole company. And they’re not purposely excluding you but they didn’t even think that having outside of work team bonding of getting mani-pedis might be uncomfortable for you. Or the fact that all their reaction gifs and references in Slack are of girly shows you’re never seen. And so the fact that at every Zoom call, every company wide meeting it’s “hey girls” just reminds you of how excluded you already feel. So you being it up and ask them to maybe use a different phrase that is a little more gender neutral to you and they brush you off, say that “girls” IS gender neutral and that it’s not their problem.
- sudosteph 6y ago
  I don't need to reverse it to imagine it - I'm a woman who has worked on teams that were otherwise all men, and I've never once felt excluded by a "hey guys", or even "hey dudes". You know what does feel super awkward though? When someone says "hey guys" in the chat, and then immediately trips over themselves to "correct" themselves, because they're afraid they've hurt my feelings or that they will be called out for uttering "wrongspeak". It's absurd to assign ill-intent to someone for simply using a slightly different dialect of American English than yourself. I'm from the south, so I say "y'all", and nobody gives me a hard time over it. Also - who cares if your coworkers have different tastes in things than you do? You're not at work to talk about TV shows or trade gifs. The whole "you should bond with your coworkers like they're your friends" thing is a toxic myth that companies promote for purely selfish reasons.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I’m in the same boat being form the Midwest so I just think it’s funny at this point — “good morning guys… uhh and lady.” But I empathize with my out of town coworkers for whom it’s really jarring so I picked up folks or peeps. I’ve never thought anyone using guys was being malicious just that some people feel more included with a different word. Like it was basically no effort for me to switch and made someone else feel just a little bit better I hope. And It doesn’t really bother me that I don’t have many boyish interests and so my entirely male rest of my team don’t talk to me very much about TV and movies or their hobbies but I still make an effort to be their friends because like we’re a small team and spend all day together. Being friends with my coworkers is honestly good for my mental health, the company be damned.
- string 6y ago
  If "girls" was defined in the dictionary as "a group of people", then no, I wouldn't care, not in the slightest. I wouldn't try to convince others that the dictionary was wrong, or that some definition I subscribe to is somehow more accurate. The team I'm currently working with are exclusively of Indian heritage, I'm white. They often talk about Bollywood films, what they did for Diwali, etc. Should this make me feel awkward or excluded? I don't really care if the company I work for is overwhelmingly anything. I usually manage to find some common ground with any person on an individual level. I don't really consider what the identify as, or what social grouping they've been deemed to belong to, as having any significance.

by string 6y ago

I don't know where you're from but where I live "guys" is a completely neutral term for any group of humans. My wife used it today on a call to three other females.

artursapek 6y ago

It sounds like your wife and those three females don't have crippling self-esteem problems, good for them.

tartoran 6y ago

Wait until smiling or even looking at someone will be deemed offensive if you don’t do it the only right way. Cameras will be everywhere and and wrong look will be penalized harshly

katbyte 6y ago

And yet it keeps coming up at the american based global company i work at as a term many women do not like or consider gender neutral, consider maybe that there are people outside your limited social circle who view it differently and in large companies spanning the globe they need to take into account other cultures and people who are not in america?

Spivak 6y ago

It’s really region dependent. But since “girls” definitely isn’t gender neutral to you all you have to do is reverse it to understand the potential awkwardness. Imagine you took a job somewhere where in their region your field was overwhelmingly female dominated and “hey girls” was considered gender neutral. And you already felt pretty excluded being the only guy on the team and one of less than 10 guys in the whole company. And they’re not purposely excluding you but they didn’t even think that having outside of work team bonding of getting mani-pedis might be uncomfortable for you. Or the fact that all their reaction gifs and references in Slack are of girly shows you’re never seen. And so the fact that at every Zoom call, every company wide meeting it’s “hey girls” just reminds you of how excluded you already feel. So you being it up and ask them to maybe use a different phrase that is a little more gender neutral to you and they brush you off, say that “girls” IS gender neutral and that it’s not their problem.

sudosteph 6y ago
I don't need to reverse it to imagine it - I'm a woman who has worked on teams that were otherwise all men, and I've never once felt excluded by a "hey guys", or even "hey dudes". You know what does feel super awkward though? When someone says "hey guys" in the chat, and then immediately trips over themselves to "correct" themselves, because they're afraid they've hurt my feelings or that they will be called out for uttering "wrongspeak". It's absurd to assign ill-intent to someone for simply using a slightly different dialect of American English than yourself. I'm from the south, so I say "y'all", and nobody gives me a hard time over it. Also - who cares if your coworkers have different tastes in things than you do? You're not at work to talk about TV shows or trade gifs. The whole "you should bond with your coworkers like they're your friends" thing is a toxic myth that companies promote for purely selfish reasons.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I’m in the same boat being form the Midwest so I just think it’s funny at this point — “good morning guys… uhh and lady.” But I empathize with my out of town coworkers for whom it’s really jarring so I picked up folks or peeps. I’ve never thought anyone using guys was being malicious just that some people feel more included with a different word. Like it was basically no effort for me to switch and made someone else feel just a little bit better I hope. And It doesn’t really bother me that I don’t have many boyish interests and so my entirely male rest of my team don’t talk to me very much about TV and movies or their hobbies but I still make an effort to be their friends because like we’re a small team and spend all day together. Being friends with my coworkers is honestly good for my mental health, the company be damned.
string 6y ago
If "girls" was defined in the dictionary as "a group of people", then no, I wouldn't care, not in the slightest. I wouldn't try to convince others that the dictionary was wrong, or that some definition I subscribe to is somehow more accurate. The team I'm currently working with are exclusively of Indian heritage, I'm white. They often talk about Bollywood films, what they did for Diwali, etc. Should this make me feel awkward or excluded? I don't really care if the company I work for is overwhelmingly anything. I usually manage to find some common ground with any person on an individual level. I don't really consider what the identify as, or what social grouping they've been deemed to belong to, as having any significance.