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> Being poor in the US is mostly an attitude problem This is provably false. Upward mobility, the self made man, and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps are

> Being poor in the US is mostly an attitude problem This is provably false. Upward mobility, the self made man, and pulling yourself up by your bootstraps are all modern myths sold to keep an unjust social order afloat. The poor work harder than the rich, and VERY rarely manage to make it out of the social class they were born into.

dokem 6y ago
The poor work harder than the rich? Have you ever met a poor or rich person? Did you not have kids in high-school that never do any of their work then drop out? That is what the path to poverty looks like. Many are poor because they do no work at all. There is a grand scheme to keep poor people down? What would that look like exactly? How do you keep someone from becoming a truck driver when that is all it takes to escape poverty? The manager at McDonalds is part of the anti-poor scheme also, I suppose? He stands to make sure that his employees that are poor never get a raise or promotion is assistant manager? So no poor person is ever to blame for their situation? And every 'rich' person did nothing and accidentally became that way?
- chickenpotpie 6y ago
  There is no scheme to keep poor people poor, the system is just setup that obtaining wealth is easier when you have wealth. The number one indicator of a persons ability to make money is the money their parents make, we call this intergenerational wealth. An example of work going further when you’re rich is college. One kid born rich and one kid born poor. Let’s say they both work 60 hours a week. They’re both hard workers, but the poor student has to redirect some of those hours to a job to pay for school and the rich students can dedicate all their hours to school. At 4 years time they both worked exactly as hard, but the rich student has better grades because they could dedicate more time to school. Nobody said that everyone that is poor is exempt from blame or that rich people don’t work. Those were huge jumps in reasoning you made. What they were saying is that you have to work harder when you’re poor to get less because you’re at a disadvantage.
  - cestith 6y ago
    There are some schemes that have kept poor people poor even if that was not the explicit reasoning. Racial redlines do that. Independent school districts funded mostly from hyperlocal real estate taxes do that. Allowing predatory payday loans and huge overdraft fees contribute to it. Treating homelessness and drug use as crimes rather than problems to be solved definitely do that.
- anoncake 6y ago
  There are poor people who don't work. There are workaholics who don't work, I know a few. Why? Because of mental illness, particularly depression. Poverty is a cause of mental illness. Even if you manage to stay healthy, being poor is still stressful and exhausting. Exhaustion is easily confused for laziness. People who are poor because they don't work generally don't work because they are poor. > So no poor person is ever to blame for their situation? As a matter of fact, they aren't. Even if they are poor just because they're lazy, you have to ask why. Is laziness genetic? Can't blame someone for their genes. Bad upbringing? Not their fault either. Not working on their attitude? Blaming them for being too lazy to do that would be a circular argument. So what do you want to blame them for? That doesn't mean incentivizing people to work is wrong. But being poor is not a moral failure.
  - khaki54 6y ago
    I'm not sure if I think poor people are lazy or not. However, by this logic, no one is responsible or "to blame" for their own decisions.
    - anoncake 6y ago
      Basically they aren't. But to some extent, we need to pretend they are for the greater good.
khaki54 6y ago
"Provably false"? Ok go ahead. I wouldn't be surprised if 1/3 to 1/2 on the people on HN came up from a disadvantaged or poverty background. I don't remember my "very rare" lucky break, but I do remember making a lot of very inconvenient but responsible decisions that took years to pay off.
- kennywinker 6y ago
  The point is not that you received a lucky break, it's that you DIDN'T receive a smack-down. Your luck was that you didn't have an overwhelming stroke of bad-luck. Unlike people from disadvantaged backgrounds, someone coming from a situation of wealth can get all kinds of strokes of bad luck and still prosper. As for provably false - here's a decent starting place for your research https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/rags-riches https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/rags-riche...
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  I'd be stunned if it were this high. Absolutely stunned. The poverty rate in the US is 10-15%. You are claiming that people born into poverty appear at twice the background rate among techie communities.

dokem 6y ago

The poor work harder than the rich? Have you ever met a poor or rich person? Did you not have kids in high-school that never do any of their work then drop out? That is what the path to poverty looks like. Many are poor because they do no work at all. There is a grand scheme to keep poor people down? What would that look like exactly? How do you keep someone from becoming a truck driver when that is all it takes to escape poverty? The manager at McDonalds is part of the anti-poor scheme also, I suppose? He stands to make sure that his employees that are poor never get a raise or promotion is assistant manager? So no poor person is ever to blame for their situation? And every 'rich' person did nothing and accidentally became that way?

chickenpotpie 6y ago
There is no scheme to keep poor people poor, the system is just setup that obtaining wealth is easier when you have wealth. The number one indicator of a persons ability to make money is the money their parents make, we call this intergenerational wealth. An example of work going further when you’re rich is college. One kid born rich and one kid born poor. Let’s say they both work 60 hours a week. They’re both hard workers, but the poor student has to redirect some of those hours to a job to pay for school and the rich students can dedicate all their hours to school. At 4 years time they both worked exactly as hard, but the rich student has better grades because they could dedicate more time to school. Nobody said that everyone that is poor is exempt from blame or that rich people don’t work. Those were huge jumps in reasoning you made. What they were saying is that you have to work harder when you’re poor to get less because you’re at a disadvantage.
- cestith 6y ago
  There are some schemes that have kept poor people poor even if that was not the explicit reasoning. Racial redlines do that. Independent school districts funded mostly from hyperlocal real estate taxes do that. Allowing predatory payday loans and huge overdraft fees contribute to it. Treating homelessness and drug use as crimes rather than problems to be solved definitely do that.
anoncake 6y ago
There are poor people who don't work. There are workaholics who don't work, I know a few. Why? Because of mental illness, particularly depression. Poverty is a cause of mental illness. Even if you manage to stay healthy, being poor is still stressful and exhausting. Exhaustion is easily confused for laziness. People who are poor because they don't work generally don't work because they are poor. > So no poor person is ever to blame for their situation? As a matter of fact, they aren't. Even if they are poor just because they're lazy, you have to ask why. Is laziness genetic? Can't blame someone for their genes. Bad upbringing? Not their fault either. Not working on their attitude? Blaming them for being too lazy to do that would be a circular argument. So what do you want to blame them for? That doesn't mean incentivizing people to work is wrong. But being poor is not a moral failure.
- khaki54 6y ago
  I'm not sure if I think poor people are lazy or not. However, by this logic, no one is responsible or "to blame" for their own decisions.
  - anoncake 6y ago
    Basically they aren't. But to some extent, we need to pretend they are for the greater good.

khaki54 6y ago

"Provably false"? Ok go ahead. I wouldn't be surprised if 1/3 to 1/2 on the people on HN came up from a disadvantaged or poverty background. I don't remember my "very rare" lucky break, but I do remember making a lot of very inconvenient but responsible decisions that took years to pay off.

kennywinker 6y ago
The point is not that you received a lucky break, it's that you DIDN'T receive a smack-down. Your luck was that you didn't have an overwhelming stroke of bad-luck. Unlike people from disadvantaged backgrounds, someone coming from a situation of wealth can get all kinds of strokes of bad luck and still prosper. As for provably false - here's a decent starting place for your research https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/rags-riches https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/rags-riche...
UncleMeat 6y ago
I'd be stunned if it were this high. Absolutely stunned. The poverty rate in the US is 10-15%. You are claiming that people born into poverty appear at twice the background rate among techie communities.