8 ms·

Can you resell it to a friend when you have no more use for it and they need it?

by dfxm12 15y ago

samlevine 15y ago
Can you resell life insurance when you have no more use for it and they need it?
- RexRollman 15y ago
  Bad example; life insurance is a service.
  - hugh3 15y ago
    Actually I think it could be a reasonable example in one sense: it gets us on to the question of "what is the difference between a good and a service, anyway"? A physical book is undeniably a good. But what about an eBook? An eBook is arguably a service -- you pay for the right to have a the words of the physical book show up on your little screen.
    - bad_user 15y ago
      Then companies should use the proper wording - "rent" instead of "buy".
      - noarchy 15y ago
        It really isn't renting, either, is it? It falls in this strange grey area where you don't truly own it, but there's nothing comparable to a lease (though I can see someone arguing that a ToS agreement is akin to one). DRM'ed books seem, to me, like buying a dead tree book, but only being able to read it on a particular kind of desk, or using a particular kind of lamp, each probably made by the book publisher. And yeah, that little detail about not being able to sell it, or even give it away once you've read it.
        bad_user 15y ago
        Dude, it's renting. Capitalism is held together because of this notion called private ownership of property. The notion of private property is very important and there is no gray area - you either own something and it's your property, or you don't. Except for copyright (which should really be reinvented because it's no longer relevant in its current form), you own copies of dead-tree books, with which you can do anything you want, including reading it 30 years later, lending it to others, sell it for huge sums of money (if you can find a buyer) or set it on fire in protest :) And I'm all for content authors to be properly rewarded, but using "buy" as if you're going to own that book is more deceiving than ever, and people have a right to know what they are getting into.
      - hugh3 15y ago
        You don't "rent" a service. You buy one. I'm gonna go buy a lapdance.
    - c0riander 15y ago
      Actually, with an eBook you pay for the words of that specific book to show up on your screen. (I notice you say "the words of the physical book," which implies that you do think the dead trees are the good, not the words printed on them -- I think most people you tried to sell the blank word-conveyor (paper) to would not agree.) It's been easy to be intellectually lazy up to this point, saying a printed book is a good because it feels nice to hold in our hands. But maybe it's actually always been a good (the words, the story) combined with a service (the paper as a delivery method - and looking at the attention in publishing paid to paper quality, bindings, design, etc seems to bear that out). Now we're just seeing the service part be delivered in an overtly separate way.
orofino 15y ago
If you want to resell it, then forgo the benefit of being able to carry hundred or thousands of books around in a tiny device and buy the dead trees. Large industries won't just change overnight, we saw that Apple needed to gain a foothold before they could remove the DRM form their music. These changes need to be evolutionary, publishers need to be persuaded (or forced) to make this change, no one has the leverage for that today. I hate DRM as much as the next guy, but this is a stepping stone, it isn't "attackin" anything. If your issue is with all digital distribution, I'm not sure I can help you. edit: typo
- RexRollman 15y ago
  In my opinion, if you can't resell an ebook when you no longer want it, then you never really owned it; you licensed it. I don't have a problem with that but normal people rarely seem to understand this before spending their money. (Personally, I don't think ebook companies should even be allowed to use the term "buy" with their books since that is not what you are actually doing; instead of "buy this book" it should say "license this book".)
  - hugh3 15y ago
    Normal people don't understand that because normal people don't care. I've never sold a book, most other people don't sell books either. I mean, if it bothers you then don't buy ebooks (I don't, personally, because I like having the physical copies on my walls... I collect 'em in the same way that hunters used to collect animal heads, as trophies... I also don't shelve 'em until I've read 'em). But I really can't see what the big fuss is about re not being able to sell them, and one might almost think that all this anti-DRM stuff is about frustrated pirates rather than folks who want to do legit things.
    - vacri 15y ago
      The heavy readers in my life will look aghast if you mention that they might want to sell or archive some of their groaning bookshelves
  - 15y ago
StavrosK 15y ago
That's up to the author, but if you promise to delete it from all your devices, it's fine with me.

Can you resell it to a friend when you have no more use for it and they need it?

by dfxm12 15y ago

Can you resell it to a friend when you have no more use for it and they need it?

samlevine 15y ago

Can you resell life insurance when you have no more use for it and they need it?

RexRollman 15y ago
Bad example; life insurance is a service.
- hugh3 15y ago
  Actually I think it could be a reasonable example in one sense: it gets us on to the question of "what is the difference between a good and a service, anyway"? A physical book is undeniably a good. But what about an eBook? An eBook is arguably a service -- you pay for the right to have a the words of the physical book show up on your little screen.
  - bad_user 15y ago
    Then companies should use the proper wording - "rent" instead of "buy".
    - noarchy 15y ago
      It really isn't renting, either, is it? It falls in this strange grey area where you don't truly own it, but there's nothing comparable to a lease (though I can see someone arguing that a ToS agreement is akin to one). DRM'ed books seem, to me, like buying a dead tree book, but only being able to read it on a particular kind of desk, or using a particular kind of lamp, each probably made by the book publisher. And yeah, that little detail about not being able to sell it, or even give it away once you've read it.
      - bad_user 15y ago
        Dude, it's renting. Capitalism is held together because of this notion called private ownership of property. The notion of private property is very important and there is no gray area - you either own something and it's your property, or you don't. Except for copyright (which should really be reinvented because it's no longer relevant in its current form), you own copies of dead-tree books, with which you can do anything you want, including reading it 30 years later, lending it to others, sell it for huge sums of money (if you can find a buyer) or set it on fire in protest :) And I'm all for content authors to be properly rewarded, but using "buy" as if you're going to own that book is more deceiving than ever, and people have a right to know what they are getting into.
    - hugh3 15y ago
      You don't "rent" a service. You buy one. I'm gonna go buy a lapdance.
  - c0riander 15y ago
    Actually, with an eBook you pay for the words of that specific book to show up on your screen. (I notice you say "the words of the physical book," which implies that you do think the dead trees are the good, not the words printed on them -- I think most people you tried to sell the blank word-conveyor (paper) to would not agree.) It's been easy to be intellectually lazy up to this point, saying a printed book is a good because it feels nice to hold in our hands. But maybe it's actually always been a good (the words, the story) combined with a service (the paper as a delivery method - and looking at the attention in publishing paid to paper quality, bindings, design, etc seems to bear that out). Now we're just seeing the service part be delivered in an overtly separate way.

orofino 15y ago

If you want to resell it, then forgo the benefit of being able to carry hundred or thousands of books around in a tiny device and buy the dead trees. Large industries won't just change overnight, we saw that Apple needed to gain a foothold before they could remove the DRM form their music. These changes need to be evolutionary, publishers need to be persuaded (or forced) to make this change, no one has the leverage for that today. I hate DRM as much as the next guy, but this is a stepping stone, it isn't "attackin" anything. If your issue is with all digital distribution, I'm not sure I can help you. edit: typo

RexRollman 15y ago
In my opinion, if you can't resell an ebook when you no longer want it, then you never really owned it; you licensed it. I don't have a problem with that but normal people rarely seem to understand this before spending their money. (Personally, I don't think ebook companies should even be allowed to use the term "buy" with their books since that is not what you are actually doing; instead of "buy this book" it should say "license this book".)
- hugh3 15y ago
  Normal people don't understand that because normal people don't care. I've never sold a book, most other people don't sell books either. I mean, if it bothers you then don't buy ebooks (I don't, personally, because I like having the physical copies on my walls... I collect 'em in the same way that hunters used to collect animal heads, as trophies... I also don't shelve 'em until I've read 'em). But I really can't see what the big fuss is about re not being able to sell them, and one might almost think that all this anti-DRM stuff is about frustrated pirates rather than folks who want to do legit things.
  - vacri 15y ago
    The heavy readers in my life will look aghast if you mention that they might want to sell or archive some of their groaning bookshelves
- 15y ago

StavrosK 15y ago

That's up to the author, but if you promise to delete it from all your devices, it's fine with me.