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> another 16 people finding fulltime work is good... but job quality? I agree, and I'd certainly like to see much deeper data here, but these numbers are way t

> another 16 people finding fulltime work is good... but job quality? I agree, and I'd certainly like to see much deeper data here, but these numbers are way too small to see any real macro pictures. However, I'd consider this a win even if these people took jobs making less money but doing something they were passionate about. > Maybe because they used their regular income, untracked debit card instead. Maybe, but a lot of people I know that aren't as well off wouldn't have really cared, or even used that card first for those kinds of purchases. > All the quotes from participants saying how much greater their life is from both the WP article and this one... perfect score across the board. You're giving people free money. If you gave me $500/mo, no strings attached I'd give it pretty high marks too, even though it's not something that I need. I may have some suggestions about how to be more efficient, but I certainly wouldn't complain. Personally I'm cautiously pro-UBI. I think it could be a great tool to make the country far better, not just for the poor, but for everybody. I think that it would add to everyone's security and enable people to prepare for and perform jobs that they want to do, instead of jobs that they are forced to choose due to lack of alternatives. I strongly suspect I'll be in the tax bracket that will end up net negative and pay for this instead of the brackets that benefit directly from it, but just like public schools benefit me indirectly, I suspect that this will be worth it for me. But without data I classify those thoughts as theories. I'd like to see large-scale data on this, and we won't see experiments at the scale I'd like to see (like counties with large cities in them) without these smaller experiments first.

lostlogin 6y ago
> I'd like to see (like counties with large cities in them) without these smaller experiments first. New Zealand gives money to everyone over 65 and it’s not means tested. Is this different to what you are suggesting? I don’t get why we wouldn’t apply the same to a younger group, at least as a test.
matbatt38 6y ago
Well actually if you don't know about it, in France there is a ~500$ kind of ubi. It's not exactly universal as you have to be poor enough to get the money and the system is made with lots of incentives for people to get a job ASAP, but if you want to, you can easily live on those 500$/mo(+free healthcare) your entire life if you're off-grid enough). I understand that it's different, but it's the closest thing I've seen to UBI in a relatively big area. There's lots of data about it :)
- cestith 6y ago
  It's not much and it's an expensive place to live, but Alaska pays each citizen a dividend each year. They do this from funds generated for the state from the oil and gas industry. It seems last year it was $992. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/alaska/articles/2020-06-12/alaska-dividend-set-at-992-to-be-paid-starting-july-1 https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/alaska/articles/2020... I can imagine if the US federal government does the wealth tax Warren is pushing, closes some of the loopholes in corporate taxes, and then uses that for UBI it will help twofold.: The UBI itself and wages, being a legitimately deductible business expense, might just start rising more quickly.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- Zababa 6y ago
  Adding to that, here's the Wikipedia page for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenu_de_solidarit%C3%A9_active https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenu_de_solidarit%C3%A9_acti...
NoOneNew 6y ago
I'm skeptical anti-UBI. Well... let's put it this way. If Stockton instead did a program where those 125 had to go to community college to get an associates (bachelors would be best, but let's stick to the 2 year timeline they gave to be fair) in something useful or some sort of skilled trade along with the 500/mo, that perks my interest and gets my vote for a pilot program in my area. To me, that's not just throwing money around hoping for the best, it's a straight up investment in people and communities. When I say useful, I mean it. No philosophy, art history or anthropology. Something in the Occupational Outlook Handbook that's currently needed and has a good 5 to 10 year outlook that's realistic for people to get a paying job better than a cashier in a short time span. STEM and medical would be great, but 2 years is a bit rough on education level to get a job in those fields. Maybe not. New course programs should be developed? Also, I think the 500/mo (maybe more) stipend is based on doing well in whatever course you're taking. You slack, you're cut. Hell, maybe a sliding scale on stipend amount if you choose a career that's really high in demand. Add in, different industries are more realistic than others in different areas. I'm in the Space Coast in Florida. A shitty STEM background gets you a decent job around here. Other areas are not so lucky. Adjusting fire on suggested careers would be necessary. Obviously some (a lot) number tweaking is needed, but I hope the general idea comes across. Even though what I suggest is more expensive, I think in the long term it would be cheaper on the city. I would vote for it too. Under this idea, the handout money is not longer the pump. Because now, the "help" is done and over in Stockton. With an added education in something extra they didn't know before the program, the participants will end up being the pump increasing tax revenues for their community. I know I just did the whole scholarship/grant program with a few extra steps. Honestly, the system back in the mid-2000s was broken (I don't know what it's like if it's changed since then).

lostlogin 6y ago

> I'd like to see (like counties with large cities in them) without these smaller experiments first. New Zealand gives money to everyone over 65 and it’s not means tested. Is this different to what you are suggesting? I don’t get why we wouldn’t apply the same to a younger group, at least as a test.

matbatt38 6y ago

Well actually if you don't know about it, in France there is a ~500$ kind of ubi. It's not exactly universal as you have to be poor enough to get the money and the system is made with lots of incentives for people to get a job ASAP, but if you want to, you can easily live on those 500$/mo(+free healthcare) your entire life if you're off-grid enough). I understand that it's different, but it's the closest thing I've seen to UBI in a relatively big area. There's lots of data about it :)

cestith 6y ago
It's not much and it's an expensive place to live, but Alaska pays each citizen a dividend each year. They do this from funds generated for the state from the oil and gas industry. It seems last year it was $992. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/alaska/articles/2020-06-12/alaska-dividend-set-at-992-to-be-paid-starting-july-1 https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/alaska/articles/2020... I can imagine if the US federal government does the wealth tax Warren is pushing, closes some of the loopholes in corporate taxes, and then uses that for UBI it will help twofold.: The UBI itself and wages, being a legitimately deductible business expense, might just start rising more quickly.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
Zababa 6y ago
Adding to that, here's the Wikipedia page for it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenu_de_solidarit%C3%A9_active https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenu_de_solidarit%C3%A9_acti...

NoOneNew 6y ago

I'm skeptical anti-UBI. Well... let's put it this way. If Stockton instead did a program where those 125 had to go to community college to get an associates (bachelors would be best, but let's stick to the 2 year timeline they gave to be fair) in something useful or some sort of skilled trade along with the 500/mo, that perks my interest and gets my vote for a pilot program in my area. To me, that's not just throwing money around hoping for the best, it's a straight up investment in people and communities. When I say useful, I mean it. No philosophy, art history or anthropology. Something in the Occupational Outlook Handbook that's currently needed and has a good 5 to 10 year outlook that's realistic for people to get a paying job better than a cashier in a short time span. STEM and medical would be great, but 2 years is a bit rough on education level to get a job in those fields. Maybe not. New course programs should be developed? Also, I think the 500/mo (maybe more) stipend is based on doing well in whatever course you're taking. You slack, you're cut. Hell, maybe a sliding scale on stipend amount if you choose a career that's really high in demand. Add in, different industries are more realistic than others in different areas. I'm in the Space Coast in Florida. A shitty STEM background gets you a decent job around here. Other areas are not so lucky. Adjusting fire on suggested careers would be necessary. Obviously some (a lot) number tweaking is needed, but I hope the general idea comes across. Even though what I suggest is more expensive, I think in the long term it would be cheaper on the city. I would vote for it too. Under this idea, the handout money is not longer the pump. Because now, the "help" is done and over in Stockton. With an added education in something extra they didn't know before the program, the participants will end up being the pump increasing tax revenues for their community. I know I just did the whole scholarship/grant program with a few extra steps. Honestly, the system back in the mid-2000s was broken (I don't know what it's like if it's changed since then).