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> All this corporate grifting and women's empowerment months will do jack shit until we figure out how to make workplaces and lives more equitable for mothers a

> All this corporate grifting and women's empowerment months will do jack shit until we figure out how to make workplaces and lives more equitable for mothers and allowing for gaps, breaks and destigmatizing time off for parents of both genders. Exactly this. Generous maternity leave and at least 0.25x paternity leave. I am not a woman, so I can't possibly begin to imagine how tough pregnancy is on a body. I also really doubt that anyone is really focused on work in the months immediately following birth. You can't buy baby food and bond with it with a pink ribbon or with the fact that your company's board of directors is 50% female. Lack of parental leaves is just young parents subsidizing unsavory capitalistic practices and outright greed.

pc86 6y ago
There's zero legitimate reason to gender parental leave either way. Not because "muh equality" or sexism or anything like that, but it should be "new kid == n weeks leave," whether you're the biological mother, father, adoptive parent, had a biological child via surrogate, whatever.
- hksh 6y ago
  Totally agree. I experienced a variation on that and learned pregnancy is not a vector space. My wife carried twins so when I asked about the "new kid == n weeks of leave" it was _not_ multiplicative. I only got n and not 2n. Boo.
  - pc86 6y ago
    If they were your first two you should've gotten n^2 :)
- Nimitz14 6y ago
  Best of luck calming the baby down without the mother.
  - triceratops 6y ago
    Why? There are times when a baby just wants mom and nobody else will do. But there also also times when a baby just wants dad (or grandma/grandpa/nanny/other caregiver) and nobody else will do. Babies are just weird sometimes. Other than those specific cases, calming a baby is mostly a matter of your skill and being lucky with your baby's temperament.
  - irae 6y ago
    I won't assume you don't have kids, but what you said does not align with my experience at all. I have two kids from different relationships, and as dad, in both cases, I calmed down my kids better than the mothers did. They both relied on me specially in the worst baby crying situations. I don't think I am an exception in ability or anything, I just cared to go learn a bit about babies, that's all. Thought a couple of friends how to do it, they also became very good at it.
    - neonate 6y ago
      So how do you do it? I want to be good at calming babies too!
      - sokoloff 6y ago
        Dad here as well and while there are a few actual tricks (which you can google and add to your arsenal), what I found was to approach it as a puzzle and try some logical things first (wet/soiled?, hungry?, needs burped?, over-tired?, too hot? [rare], too cold? [less rare]) and if it wasn't one of those, well then here we go: just keep trying things somewhat randomly, taking notes later as to what worked and what didn't. Some kids like to be squeezed, others talked to, others picked up, others tickled, others rocked, and it changes 15-minute to 15-minute period. My wife was better at some aspects or episodes than I was (especially if it was feeding as I could feed from a bottle eventually once I thawed and warmed and bottled the milk, but that took an eternity in crying infant terms), but I was better at staying calm and intrigued by how to solve the puzzle this time. If she got upset/frustrated because our infant was upset, nothing good came of it, and I am personality-wise better suited to plowing through that situation without [much visible] frustration. Assuming it's not a fatal problem, eventually something will work; in the history of the world, that's never failed to be true.
- kaitai 6y ago
  Gotta disagree. Bleeding, bleeding, bleeding, tears, pelvic instability, trouble pooping, breast milk coming in, mastitis, difficulty walking for several weeks, hormonal changes to sleep ability. People who give birth need time to physically heal. Some have an easy time, others are still shuffling around in mesh underpants with witch hazel and aloe soaked hygiene pads at four weeks post birth. (Search for padsicle to learn about it.)
  - pc86 6y ago
    All the more reason to have equal leave so they can be looked after while recuperating. If you're suggesting giving new fathers less "approved/acceptable" time off, you're telling mother who have these complications that they're going to have to fend for themselves. Imagine telling someone with a 4th degree tear (don't Google this) that they have to deal with everything around that, as well as a newborn, alone for 8-10 hours a day.

pc86 6y ago

There's zero legitimate reason to gender parental leave either way. Not because "muh equality" or sexism or anything like that, but it should be "new kid == n weeks leave," whether you're the biological mother, father, adoptive parent, had a biological child via surrogate, whatever.

hksh 6y ago
Totally agree. I experienced a variation on that and learned pregnancy is not a vector space. My wife carried twins so when I asked about the "new kid == n weeks of leave" it was _not_ multiplicative. I only got n and not 2n. Boo.
- pc86 6y ago
  If they were your first two you should've gotten n^2 :)
Nimitz14 6y ago
Best of luck calming the baby down without the mother.
- triceratops 6y ago
  Why? There are times when a baby just wants mom and nobody else will do. But there also also times when a baby just wants dad (or grandma/grandpa/nanny/other caregiver) and nobody else will do. Babies are just weird sometimes. Other than those specific cases, calming a baby is mostly a matter of your skill and being lucky with your baby's temperament.
- irae 6y ago
  I won't assume you don't have kids, but what you said does not align with my experience at all. I have two kids from different relationships, and as dad, in both cases, I calmed down my kids better than the mothers did. They both relied on me specially in the worst baby crying situations. I don't think I am an exception in ability or anything, I just cared to go learn a bit about babies, that's all. Thought a couple of friends how to do it, they also became very good at it.
  - neonate 6y ago
    So how do you do it? I want to be good at calming babies too!
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      Dad here as well and while there are a few actual tricks (which you can google and add to your arsenal), what I found was to approach it as a puzzle and try some logical things first (wet/soiled?, hungry?, needs burped?, over-tired?, too hot? [rare], too cold? [less rare]) and if it wasn't one of those, well then here we go: just keep trying things somewhat randomly, taking notes later as to what worked and what didn't. Some kids like to be squeezed, others talked to, others picked up, others tickled, others rocked, and it changes 15-minute to 15-minute period. My wife was better at some aspects or episodes than I was (especially if it was feeding as I could feed from a bottle eventually once I thawed and warmed and bottled the milk, but that took an eternity in crying infant terms), but I was better at staying calm and intrigued by how to solve the puzzle this time. If she got upset/frustrated because our infant was upset, nothing good came of it, and I am personality-wise better suited to plowing through that situation without [much visible] frustration. Assuming it's not a fatal problem, eventually something will work; in the history of the world, that's never failed to be true.
kaitai 6y ago
Gotta disagree. Bleeding, bleeding, bleeding, tears, pelvic instability, trouble pooping, breast milk coming in, mastitis, difficulty walking for several weeks, hormonal changes to sleep ability. People who give birth need time to physically heal. Some have an easy time, others are still shuffling around in mesh underpants with witch hazel and aloe soaked hygiene pads at four weeks post birth. (Search for padsicle to learn about it.)
- pc86 6y ago
  All the more reason to have equal leave so they can be looked after while recuperating. If you're suggesting giving new fathers less "approved/acceptable" time off, you're telling mother who have these complications that they're going to have to fend for themselves. Imagine telling someone with a 4th degree tear (don't Google this) that they have to deal with everything around that, as well as a newborn, alone for 8-10 hours a day.