7 ms·

> sitting at 25Mbps down and 3Mbps up since 2015 we should increase the upload speed, but 100Mbs is overkill. I had gigabit fiber for 3 years before I realized

by u678u 6y ago

> sitting at 25Mbps down and 3Mbps up since 2015 we should increase the upload speed, but 100Mbs is overkill. I had gigabit fiber for 3 years before I realized I never went anywhere near that. I switched to 100/100 now and no one even noticed, that's with the whole family working/schooling from home. I'm pretty sure 50/50 would be fine. The biggest issues are data caps and upload speeds.

ip26 6y ago
If you've got fiber to the home, there's not much reason not to have symmetric gigabit though...
- war1025 6y ago
  I have fiber to the home, and I'd have to say the cost structure is a great reason not to have gigabit service. We have the base package, which is advertised at 50/50 and is generally right on target. Plus no data caps. I am extremely satisfied.
- u678u 6y ago
  I save $20 a month by having 100 instead of 1000.
hanniabu 6y ago
> 100Mbs is overkill Not really considering this probably won't be updated for another 20 years
- war1025 6y ago
  Just did a quick search, found this [1] article. The 25/3 definition was set in 2015 It had been set to 4/1 in 2010 In 1996 the original definition was 200k/200k. This seems to be a moving target and there is no reason to believe it won't continue to be updated. [1] https://broadbandnow.com/report/fcc-broadband-definition/ https://broadbandnow.com/report/fcc-broadband-definition/
  - upbeat_general 6y ago
    Yes but since we know that the target will get higher, why should we wait for problem to happen instead of fixing it before it happens? It seems reasonable to “overbuild” infrastructure in this case.
hartator 6y ago
Maybe you are just capped by bad wifi? I had the same issue and switching around wifi protocols did a 10x on my speed. Like from 20-30mbs to 300-350mbs.
- war1025 6y ago
  If all you do is basic Netflix / Facebook / etc. you really don't need all that fat of a pipe. I did upgrade my router in the fall and was surprised how big of a difference it made for my speeds around the house, but we are still nowhere near saturating the bandwidth we have available with 50 / 50. Granted, we are a family of 5 with 3 preschoolers that don't do anything besides watch shows a couple hours every evening.
mciancia 6y ago
TBH if we want to see more services like stadia/geforce now or highier res streaming 50Mbps is not enough. Single stream in GFN can reach 50Mbps right now and that's only on 1080p60hz. Rising bar won't hurt anyone and should force ISPs to create better infrastructure.
tootie 6y ago
I have a family of 4 who will all be streaming, gaming, surfing at once on 25mbps and it's fine. You need about 5mbps per stream at 1080p and 30fps. Streaming in 4K is much more demanding but I think that's still a luxury. I think the big variable between now and the last time these were set is the great remote working migration of 2020. Zoom doesn't require 1080 quality, but you'll be sending as much up as down, so the 3mbps upload speed would suddenly feel pretty tight.
- zepearl 6y ago
  I used to have 25/5 and from time to time it was tight for me alone (but I never fiddled much with QoS settings). Under "normal" usage it did work, but then there were from time to time complications (e.g. OS update, Android update/installations, send/receive funny videos, etc...) and then when 1.5 years ago it became from time to time as well difficult to work from home (bigger SW-updates on the company notebook, more communication by antivirus/antispyware/antiwhatever) I gave up and changed to 1gb/1gb fibre => with what started happening last year I've been veeery lucky to get it just a few months before that the whole Covid situation made working from home a permanent situation :)
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
From prior experience in this industry: Customers are generally quite bad at determining where the bottleneck is in their system. It was surprising to see how often people upgraded their broadband plan or WiFi router after struggling to FaceTime with friends and family (who were likely on cellular), for example.
jsight 6y ago
I completely agree. In our neighborhood, I see a lot of folks pushing for 1Gb for better netflix and youtube. Uh, do you really have 10 people doing separate 4k videos? Its just overkill. Upload on the other hand is far more important than people realize.
xdrosenheim 6y ago
See, this I do not understand... With 50/50Mbps I can't game and watch 1080p60 videos on YouTube whilst family stream, there will be a very noticeable lag in game and stream will start to buffer. We now get 140/140 for just under $25 (Europe, Denmark)
- u678u 6y ago
  That doesn't sound right. 1080p60 should only take about 10 Mbps. Gaming should not require much signal. 4k video does take more.
  - bombcar 6y ago
    Speed is confused for latency - many connections aren't well handled and so if you get close to saturating the connection latency goes to hell - because the ACKs can't get through fast enough.
- bombcar 6y ago
  Speed is often decoupled from latency - but many home routers don't do QoS correctly and can flood the DOWNSTREAM by flooding the UPSTREAM (ACKs don't get through).

by u678u 6y ago

ip26 6y ago

If you've got fiber to the home, there's not much reason not to have symmetric gigabit though...

war1025 6y ago
I have fiber to the home, and I'd have to say the cost structure is a great reason not to have gigabit service. We have the base package, which is advertised at 50/50 and is generally right on target. Plus no data caps. I am extremely satisfied.
u678u 6y ago
I save $20 a month by having 100 instead of 1000.

hanniabu 6y ago

> 100Mbs is overkill Not really considering this probably won't be updated for another 20 years

war1025 6y ago
Just did a quick search, found this [1] article. The 25/3 definition was set in 2015 It had been set to 4/1 in 2010 In 1996 the original definition was 200k/200k. This seems to be a moving target and there is no reason to believe it won't continue to be updated. [1] https://broadbandnow.com/report/fcc-broadband-definition/ https://broadbandnow.com/report/fcc-broadband-definition/
- upbeat_general 6y ago
  Yes but since we know that the target will get higher, why should we wait for problem to happen instead of fixing it before it happens? It seems reasonable to “overbuild” infrastructure in this case.

hartator 6y ago

Maybe you are just capped by bad wifi? I had the same issue and switching around wifi protocols did a 10x on my speed. Like from 20-30mbs to 300-350mbs.

war1025 6y ago
If all you do is basic Netflix / Facebook / etc. you really don't need all that fat of a pipe. I did upgrade my router in the fall and was surprised how big of a difference it made for my speeds around the house, but we are still nowhere near saturating the bandwidth we have available with 50 / 50. Granted, we are a family of 5 with 3 preschoolers that don't do anything besides watch shows a couple hours every evening.

mciancia 6y ago

TBH if we want to see more services like stadia/geforce now or highier res streaming 50Mbps is not enough. Single stream in GFN can reach 50Mbps right now and that's only on 1080p60hz. Rising bar won't hurt anyone and should force ISPs to create better infrastructure.

tootie 6y ago

I have a family of 4 who will all be streaming, gaming, surfing at once on 25mbps and it's fine. You need about 5mbps per stream at 1080p and 30fps. Streaming in 4K is much more demanding but I think that's still a luxury. I think the big variable between now and the last time these were set is the great remote working migration of 2020. Zoom doesn't require 1080 quality, but you'll be sending as much up as down, so the 3mbps upload speed would suddenly feel pretty tight.

zepearl 6y ago
I used to have 25/5 and from time to time it was tight for me alone (but I never fiddled much with QoS settings). Under "normal" usage it did work, but then there were from time to time complications (e.g. OS update, Android update/installations, send/receive funny videos, etc...) and then when 1.5 years ago it became from time to time as well difficult to work from home (bigger SW-updates on the company notebook, more communication by antivirus/antispyware/antiwhatever) I gave up and changed to 1gb/1gb fibre => with what started happening last year I've been veeery lucky to get it just a few months before that the whole Covid situation made working from home a permanent situation :)

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

From prior experience in this industry: Customers are generally quite bad at determining where the bottleneck is in their system. It was surprising to see how often people upgraded their broadband plan or WiFi router after struggling to FaceTime with friends and family (who were likely on cellular), for example.

jsight 6y ago

I completely agree. In our neighborhood, I see a lot of folks pushing for 1Gb for better netflix and youtube. Uh, do you really have 10 people doing separate 4k videos? Its just overkill. Upload on the other hand is far more important than people realize.

xdrosenheim 6y ago

See, this I do not understand... With 50/50Mbps I can't game and watch 1080p60 videos on YouTube whilst family stream, there will be a very noticeable lag in game and stream will start to buffer. We now get 140/140 for just under $25 (Europe, Denmark)

u678u 6y ago
That doesn't sound right. 1080p60 should only take about 10 Mbps. Gaming should not require much signal. 4k video does take more.
- bombcar 6y ago
  Speed is confused for latency - many connections aren't well handled and so if you get close to saturating the connection latency goes to hell - because the ACKs can't get through fast enough.
bombcar 6y ago
Speed is often decoupled from latency - but many home routers don't do QoS correctly and can flood the DOWNSTREAM by flooding the UPSTREAM (ACKs don't get through).