5 ms·

For highly skilled technical people and business leaders, we already do live in that society. There are many companies that will happily pay you entirely unreas

For highly skilled technical people and business leaders, we already do live in that society. There are many companies that will happily pay you entirely unreasonable amounts of money to work a 9-5 job. However, you can opt in to lifestyles where you work yourself to death in the hopes of getting even more excessive riches and fame than you would get by living a more relaxed lifestyle.

fastball 6y ago
I don't want fame or riches. I just want to build something nobody else has built.
- grillvogel 6y ago
  have a kid then
- asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
  You can do that as a hobby, or you can do it as a startup but treat the startup as a 9-5. (Your leisurely pace of work might hurt your chances of staying ahead of your competitors, but that's only important if you want the wealth and fame part.)
  - fastball 6y ago
    Hmm I don't think that's quite right. In order for me to continue building something nobody has built, I need it to be generating revenue. And in order to generate revenue I need to stay ahead of the competition, which probably requires not treating it like a 9-5. So yes I'm pursuing money, but not to achieve vast personal wealth, but rather to ensure my (hopefully) novel business is long-term viable.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
      Ok, I guess for some founders keeping their business viable at all requires a very large commitment. I think that's going to depend on how saturated is the market you're entering, and various other factors. I still believe that most founders could work much less if they were not in pursuit of vast wealth/fame.
    - munk-a 6y ago
      I disagree with this - I think it's very much a reflection of the modern world being quite focused on profits and revenue - you can build an exceedingly successful thing that doesn't provide a clear revenue stream. It won't come with the glamour that other options may have but if you look at passion projects from things like open source libraries all the way down to dwarf fortress it's quite possible to make a living building a thing - it just won't give you 200k+ in annual income. There is a place for artisanal projects in the modern world - a lot of creative folks subsist greatly on patreon as a source of income.
      - fastball 6y ago
        That's more of a crapshoot though. The vast majority of open source projects don't generate enough donations to sustain even a single developer. The vast majority of indie games don't experience the success of Dwarf Fortress. A clear revenue model from the beginning makes it much more likely that you will be either A. long-term sustainable or B. call it quits before too much time is invested.
        munk-a 6y ago
        I disagree with this - I would agree that most projects don't end up making serious bank but I've seen a pretty impressive diversity of things being represented on patreon and taking in enough expenses to easily cover overhead costs. If you are working for fun on an artistic/creative endeavor then you'll often need to cut personal corners to keep a real job to keep the lights on but you can seek and receive funding to prevent that hobby from becoming too much of a cost sink. This is also starting from the fact that your goal isn't to build a megacorporation (at least I didn't read it that way) - you're looking for the freedom to build a thing you want to build. You absolutely will pay a personal cost for that freedom, but the internet is a pretty diverse place where I wouldn't be surprised if you could find people willing to subsidize your work. Like most people pursuing a passion project, it's wise not to quit your day job and throw everything in the basket initially, but if it's something you want to pursue it you can find funding to help lessen the costs you'd otherwise need to pay out of pocket.
    - pantalaimon 6y ago
      if you build something nobody else had built, wouldn't that mean there is no competition?
- mathgladiator 6y ago
  I respect the honesty, and I am there with you. I think inventing something new is exceptionally harder because the burden of communication is exceptional. I have spent a decade within large scale infrastructure, so I have climbed the shoulders of giants to see what can be. Once you see what can be, then there is the burden to communicate what you see. It's not easy, and you learn deep respect for all the previous innovations because they required exceptional communications. Here I am, an aging man, and I've invented my thing. It's a programming language for board games that lets you build durable compute. You don't have to worry about failures at all. The machine can live forever! It's great, but I have to communicate and prove its value. I intend to retire and tinker on it for a decade: http://www.adama-lang.org/docs/what-the-living-document http://www.adama-lang.org/docs/what-the-living-document

fastball 6y ago

I don't want fame or riches. I just want to build something nobody else has built.

grillvogel 6y ago
have a kid then
asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
You can do that as a hobby, or you can do it as a startup but treat the startup as a 9-5. (Your leisurely pace of work might hurt your chances of staying ahead of your competitors, but that's only important if you want the wealth and fame part.)
- fastball 6y ago
  Hmm I don't think that's quite right. In order for me to continue building something nobody has built, I need it to be generating revenue. And in order to generate revenue I need to stay ahead of the competition, which probably requires not treating it like a 9-5. So yes I'm pursuing money, but not to achieve vast personal wealth, but rather to ensure my (hopefully) novel business is long-term viable.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 6y ago
    Ok, I guess for some founders keeping their business viable at all requires a very large commitment. I think that's going to depend on how saturated is the market you're entering, and various other factors. I still believe that most founders could work much less if they were not in pursuit of vast wealth/fame.
  - munk-a 6y ago
    I disagree with this - I think it's very much a reflection of the modern world being quite focused on profits and revenue - you can build an exceedingly successful thing that doesn't provide a clear revenue stream. It won't come with the glamour that other options may have but if you look at passion projects from things like open source libraries all the way down to dwarf fortress it's quite possible to make a living building a thing - it just won't give you 200k+ in annual income. There is a place for artisanal projects in the modern world - a lot of creative folks subsist greatly on patreon as a source of income.
    - fastball 6y ago
      That's more of a crapshoot though. The vast majority of open source projects don't generate enough donations to sustain even a single developer. The vast majority of indie games don't experience the success of Dwarf Fortress. A clear revenue model from the beginning makes it much more likely that you will be either A. long-term sustainable or B. call it quits before too much time is invested.
      - munk-a 6y ago
        I disagree with this - I would agree that most projects don't end up making serious bank but I've seen a pretty impressive diversity of things being represented on patreon and taking in enough expenses to easily cover overhead costs. If you are working for fun on an artistic/creative endeavor then you'll often need to cut personal corners to keep a real job to keep the lights on but you can seek and receive funding to prevent that hobby from becoming too much of a cost sink. This is also starting from the fact that your goal isn't to build a megacorporation (at least I didn't read it that way) - you're looking for the freedom to build a thing you want to build. You absolutely will pay a personal cost for that freedom, but the internet is a pretty diverse place where I wouldn't be surprised if you could find people willing to subsidize your work. Like most people pursuing a passion project, it's wise not to quit your day job and throw everything in the basket initially, but if it's something you want to pursue it you can find funding to help lessen the costs you'd otherwise need to pay out of pocket.
  - pantalaimon 6y ago
    if you build something nobody else had built, wouldn't that mean there is no competition?
mathgladiator 6y ago
I respect the honesty, and I am there with you. I think inventing something new is exceptionally harder because the burden of communication is exceptional. I have spent a decade within large scale infrastructure, so I have climbed the shoulders of giants to see what can be. Once you see what can be, then there is the burden to communicate what you see. It's not easy, and you learn deep respect for all the previous innovations because they required exceptional communications. Here I am, an aging man, and I've invented my thing. It's a programming language for board games that lets you build durable compute. You don't have to worry about failures at all. The machine can live forever! It's great, but I have to communicate and prove its value. I intend to retire and tinker on it for a decade: http://www.adama-lang.org/docs/what-the-living-document http://www.adama-lang.org/docs/what-the-living-document