4 ms·

Also distance doesn't accurately represent the inconvenience it takes to get from new york city to a place not connected by subway. To go from Manhattan to jers

Also distance doesn't accurately represent the inconvenience it takes to get from new york city to a place not connected by subway. To go from Manhattan to jersey city you will most likely be taking a subway and then connecting to a path train or ferry, that mere mile distance could easily make your commute over an hour each way.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
siculars 15y ago
For anyone who is familiar with the traffic patterns in and around Manhattan, a "mere mile" as the crow flies is a far stretch from reality. NYC is really a village... at 3am with no traffic. But when you need to navigate public transportation you will no doubt be left wanting wings.
- melling 15y ago
  Of course it doesn't need to be this way. Hopefully, they'll extend the 7 line to Jersey and continue adding subway lines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Subway_Extension http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Subway_Extension
  - siculars 15y ago
    Talk to me in a few decades... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway Subway extensions are notoriously difficult to pull off in NYC. NYC, in specific, and the USA, in general, have become woefully inadequate in their ability to pull of Major infrastructure projects. The list of overbudget and behind schedule projects in the last few decades is a mile long. I won't hold my breath waiting for the day I can take the 7 from Flushing (where I grew up) to Jersey.
    - muhfuhkuh 15y ago
      It really puts things in perspective when you have a monolithic, monocultural, centrally-planned country like China building all of these science-fiction scope projects like the massive Beijing Subway[1], and doing them in record time. Seriously, are our troubles building things like the Big Dig really because of Unions, as Free Marketeers have laid blame? Or, is it because the Chinese government can plow through any problem because they're communists and not "inefficient democracy"? Or, is it because of their "monoculture" (I've always hated that argument; I mean, what does culture or cultural mix have to do with getting something built or accomplished?). Or, maybe it's the almighty dollar/yen/yuan (and lack thereof). Whatever it is, it's really depressing. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxMjjwwV9tQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxMjjwwV9tQ
      - guelo 15y ago
        Somehow this country, the richest country in history, is in the grips of an amazing can't do attitude. A big part of it is the rise of the conservative movement and its "government is evil" mantra. And part of it is just that democracy is messy since you have to get more people to agree and make compromises.
      - enjo 15y ago
        From the outside it sure seems like its the bureaucracy involved that is our issue. Environmental impact study after environmental impact study followed by detailed design reviews and constituent hearings. The actual engineering and building are still strengths of ours, its every little special interest we put between conception and execution that seems to be the issue. At least what I can gather talking to people working in those fields. We used to sublet out of an architects office, and it was fascinating listening to them deal with all of the regulatory insanity.
      - WildUtah 15y ago
        The reviews and objections and hearings and studies are all necessary because of the treason against the American people committed by an earlier generation of planners and engineers. A lot of the remaining neighborhoods in New York City were nearly destroyed by the Lower Manhattan Expressway in the 1960's.[1] Most American cities were well on their way to being modern Detroit thanks to planners like NY's Robert Moses and his traffic engineers. They wanted to rebuild America to be easy driving dystopias with free flowing traffic and no space for community and walking lifestyles. They did succeed in the outer parts of NYC and put freeways down both Manhattan waterfronts. There used to be freeways down the Embarcadero and through the central parts of San Francisco.[2] Tens of thousands of citizens were driven out to build them. Their entire neighborhoods were razed and traditional walkable living was on its way to eradication in America. Freeway protests started with Jane Jacobs in the 1960's, won against the freeway plans of San Francisco, and resulted in the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969.[3] NEPA is the model for analysis paralysis and regulations and safety procedures that block infrastructure projects across America. It continues to be necessary as you can see in most any urban freeway expansion project or wetlands infill development in America today. The Big Dig in particular proves that even NEPA isn't enough to block idiocy. The best thing for the Central Artery would have been just like the Embarcadero Freeway; tear it down and replace it with nothing. That is, replace it with a regular city street, a couple small parks, and new buildings continuing the urbanism of the North End. The evidence is overwhelming that the traffic situation in Boston would have improved everywhere and the Central Artery (and its underground replacement) actually make things worse.[4][5] The real insanity isn't that it took 20 years to do the Big Dig but that it wasn't simply a three week demolition project recognizing that the Central Artery was lunacy in the first place. For now, however, what NEPA can do is slow down the stupidity until we can grow a planning and engineering culture that respects traditional urban form, liveable and walkable communities, and a less motor-oriented way of life.[6] [1] http://newurbannetwork.com/article/wrestling-moses-how-jane-jacobs-took-new-york%E2%80%99s-master-builder-and-transformed-american-city http://newurbannetwork.com/article/wrestling-moses-how-jane-... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_480 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_480 [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Environmental_Policy_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Environmental_Policy_A... [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess_paradox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess_paradox [5] http://www.infrastructurist.com/2011/06/06/why-building-roads-creates-traffic/ http://www.infrastructurist.com/2011/06/06/why-building-road... [6] http://www.cnu.org/ http://www.cnu.org/
  - smackfu 15y ago
    The PATH does the job though, and connects to the subway in a couple of places.
    - melling 15y ago
      The PATH is great but it doesn't do the job. The 7 Line could run all the way from the east side of Manhattan to Secaucus for one subway fare for starters. There needs to be more rail lines off the island.
skorgu 15y ago
Goldman's idea was to use ferries between FiDi and Jersey City to mitigate this. They called it the 'Venice strategy', I have no idea how well it worked.
ch1x0r 15y ago
The difference may add 15-20 minutes to the commute, if you're coming down from points east. Not insignificant, but it's not like it is taking people 10 minutes on one hand, over an hour on the other.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

siculars 15y ago

For anyone who is familiar with the traffic patterns in and around Manhattan, a "mere mile" as the crow flies is a far stretch from reality. NYC is really a village... at 3am with no traffic. But when you need to navigate public transportation you will no doubt be left wanting wings.

melling 15y ago
Of course it doesn't need to be this way. Hopefully, they'll extend the 7 line to Jersey and continue adding subway lines. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Subway_Extension http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_Subway_Extension
- siculars 15y ago
  Talk to me in a few decades... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Avenue_Subway Subway extensions are notoriously difficult to pull off in NYC. NYC, in specific, and the USA, in general, have become woefully inadequate in their ability to pull of Major infrastructure projects. The list of overbudget and behind schedule projects in the last few decades is a mile long. I won't hold my breath waiting for the day I can take the 7 from Flushing (where I grew up) to Jersey.
  - muhfuhkuh 15y ago
    It really puts things in perspective when you have a monolithic, monocultural, centrally-planned country like China building all of these science-fiction scope projects like the massive Beijing Subway[1], and doing them in record time. Seriously, are our troubles building things like the Big Dig really because of Unions, as Free Marketeers have laid blame? Or, is it because the Chinese government can plow through any problem because they're communists and not "inefficient democracy"? Or, is it because of their "monoculture" (I've always hated that argument; I mean, what does culture or cultural mix have to do with getting something built or accomplished?). Or, maybe it's the almighty dollar/yen/yuan (and lack thereof). Whatever it is, it's really depressing. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxMjjwwV9tQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxMjjwwV9tQ
    - guelo 15y ago
      Somehow this country, the richest country in history, is in the grips of an amazing can't do attitude. A big part of it is the rise of the conservative movement and its "government is evil" mantra. And part of it is just that democracy is messy since you have to get more people to agree and make compromises.
    - enjo 15y ago
      From the outside it sure seems like its the bureaucracy involved that is our issue. Environmental impact study after environmental impact study followed by detailed design reviews and constituent hearings. The actual engineering and building are still strengths of ours, its every little special interest we put between conception and execution that seems to be the issue. At least what I can gather talking to people working in those fields. We used to sublet out of an architects office, and it was fascinating listening to them deal with all of the regulatory insanity.
    - WildUtah 15y ago
      The reviews and objections and hearings and studies are all necessary because of the treason against the American people committed by an earlier generation of planners and engineers. A lot of the remaining neighborhoods in New York City were nearly destroyed by the Lower Manhattan Expressway in the 1960's.[1] Most American cities were well on their way to being modern Detroit thanks to planners like NY's Robert Moses and his traffic engineers. They wanted to rebuild America to be easy driving dystopias with free flowing traffic and no space for community and walking lifestyles. They did succeed in the outer parts of NYC and put freeways down both Manhattan waterfronts. There used to be freeways down the Embarcadero and through the central parts of San Francisco.[2] Tens of thousands of citizens were driven out to build them. Their entire neighborhoods were razed and traditional walkable living was on its way to eradication in America. Freeway protests started with Jane Jacobs in the 1960's, won against the freeway plans of San Francisco, and resulted in the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969.[3] NEPA is the model for analysis paralysis and regulations and safety procedures that block infrastructure projects across America. It continues to be necessary as you can see in most any urban freeway expansion project or wetlands infill development in America today. The Big Dig in particular proves that even NEPA isn't enough to block idiocy. The best thing for the Central Artery would have been just like the Embarcadero Freeway; tear it down and replace it with nothing. That is, replace it with a regular city street, a couple small parks, and new buildings continuing the urbanism of the North End. The evidence is overwhelming that the traffic situation in Boston would have improved everywhere and the Central Artery (and its underground replacement) actually make things worse.[4][5] The real insanity isn't that it took 20 years to do the Big Dig but that it wasn't simply a three week demolition project recognizing that the Central Artery was lunacy in the first place. For now, however, what NEPA can do is slow down the stupidity until we can grow a planning and engineering culture that respects traditional urban form, liveable and walkable communities, and a less motor-oriented way of life.[6] [1] http://newurbannetwork.com/article/wrestling-moses-how-jane-jacobs-took-new-york%E2%80%99s-master-builder-and-transformed-american-city http://newurbannetwork.com/article/wrestling-moses-how-jane-... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_480 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_480 [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Environmental_Policy_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Environmental_Policy_A... [4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess_paradox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braess_paradox [5] http://www.infrastructurist.com/2011/06/06/why-building-roads-creates-traffic/ http://www.infrastructurist.com/2011/06/06/why-building-road... [6] http://www.cnu.org/ http://www.cnu.org/
- smackfu 15y ago
  The PATH does the job though, and connects to the subway in a couple of places.
  - melling 15y ago
    The PATH is great but it doesn't do the job. The 7 Line could run all the way from the east side of Manhattan to Secaucus for one subway fare for starters. There needs to be more rail lines off the island.

skorgu 15y ago

Goldman's idea was to use ferries between FiDi and Jersey City to mitigate this. They called it the 'Venice strategy', I have no idea how well it worked.

ch1x0r 15y ago

The difference may add 15-20 minutes to the commute, if you're coming down from points east. Not insignificant, but it's not like it is taking people 10 minutes on one hand, over an hour on the other.