6 ms·

Lamb also produces wool, used as clothing, insulation, etc. -; lanolin, used in a lot of skincare products; and so on. Beef & pig skin is used as leather produc

by pmlnr 6y ago

Lamb also produces wool, used as clothing, insulation, etc. -; lanolin, used in a lot of skincare products; and so on. Beef & pig skin is used as leather products. If you add these needs into the plant-based idea, how does it look? EDIT: the beef energy need is ridiculous though, and that should definitely be reduced. My main issue is lamb, because wool is an incredible and useful material, which should get a lot more attention. EDIT: re "replacement" materials - if you mean plastics, we know how well that is going.

ruined 6y ago
those are from a minuscule portion of the animals. plant and polymer substitutes are readily available for most use cases, and where the real thing matters, a few animals may of course still be raised for that dedicated purpose. this is about reducing meat consumption.
- pmlnr 6y ago
  > polymer substitutes Which eventually adds to the mountains of non-bio-degradable plastic waste.
  - ruined 6y ago
    definitely a concern, but that problem has solutions too
    - pmlnr 6y ago
      Care to share it with the world, that currently tries to deal with plastic pollution?
- harimau777 6y ago
  There are definitely issues where plant and polymers can be good substitutes but they often aren't as good. Plant based fabrics tend to have much worse performance than the animal derived alternatives. Granted, that doesn't apply to clothing being worn purely for fashion. Polymer based fabrics often do not wear well and may have issues with micro-plastics and outgassing.
- silicon2401 6y ago
  what is a comparable substitute to wool for textiles, especially for outdoorsing? genuine question as I'm not vegan but have been working to move away from animal products where feasible for me
drzaiusapelord 6y ago
Its not the 17th century anymore, we can make those things from non-animal components. Leather and lanolin are a wholly unneeded vanity and for the vain they can just do with alternatives.
- pmlnr 6y ago
  There is no all-in-one replacement for wool: it's insulating even when wet, it's fire-retardant, lightweight, has antibacterial and anti-mould properties, and it's bio-degradable. Regarding leather: if one cares for it, it last decades. No plastic replacement I ever had lasted as long as leather that was occasionally cleaned and greased.
  - drzaiusapelord 6y ago
    Nearly everyone wears cotton or synthetics, no one "needs" wool the same way you don't need the unique light a whale oil lamp gives. These are, again, vanities for the vain at the cost of animal suffering. Wool is also very expensive and the environmental cost of raising all these animals outweighs the biodegradable benefits. Except in reality, leather is more or less a fast fashion item that comes and goes. People buy them and toss them as their fashion tastes dictate, again, its not the 17th century. Its very rare to have a leather coat you wear daily for decades. Even in poorer countries is expensive to get and treated mostly like a vanity item. Alternative fabrics and materials work just as well and they both end up in a landfill after a few years anyway. Also the leather industry is abusive and exploitative towards workers and exposes some of the most vulnerable people to carcinogens and poisons needed to "work" leather. Is your vanity item worth all this suffering?
    - pmlnr 6y ago
      > at the cost of animal suffering Go to a sheep farm, and watch the sheering. That PETA campaign was complete bs; most sheep actually await and enjoy being free from their fluff. EDIT: too many replacements are plastic, which is adding to the accumulation of plastic garbage.
yboris 6y ago
There are also problems with meat production: immense pollution of air, land, and water. And there are a multitude of negative health impacts with high meat consumption as well. And there's also the catastrophic moral failing: a staggering amount of inevitable abuse of sentient creatures when we look across the modern practices of growing animals for human consumption.
Gys 6y ago
Lamb is a very young sheep, so I guess those will not have much wool before being slaughtered? Anecdotally, I have Dutch family that kept sheep for a long time. They said the cost of shaving off the wool is often higher than the value of the wool.
maxerickson 6y ago
I wonder how many people are allergic to petrolatum and not lanolin.
zucker42 6y ago
To what extent do those needs have no replacements, and what percentage of livestock raised for food are used also for other products?
- harimau777 6y ago
  If you are avoiding synthetic fibers (e.g. due to concerns about microplastics or outgassing) then I am not aware of an alternative to wool. The big feature of wool is that, unlike plant fibers, it still insulates you when it gets wet. It also has anti-bacterial properties (so it tends not to get body odor as quickly) and is naturally flame retardant (which also separates it from most synthetic fibers). The faux-leather that I'm aware of seeks to replicate leather's look more than its performance. In particular leather tends to last much longer, develop a patina as it gets worn, doesn't melt when burnt, provides protection, etc. On the other hand, fabrics like kevlar and ballistic nylon can replicate some of leather's performance but not its look. Most of these also have the issues associated with synthetic fibers. Finally, there are semi-niche applications for vegetable tanned leather (which is the more traditional approach to tanning). Vegetable tanned leather becomes flexible when wet and holds its shape when it dries. That allows leather to be formed into shapes (e.g. armour for martial arts or cosplay, holsters and sheaths) and allows it to be tooled. I'm not aware of a faux-leather that acts that way.
mint2 6y ago
Aren’t meat sheep and wool sheep different?

by pmlnr 6y ago

ruined 6y ago

those are from a minuscule portion of the animals. plant and polymer substitutes are readily available for most use cases, and where the real thing matters, a few animals may of course still be raised for that dedicated purpose. this is about reducing meat consumption.

pmlnr 6y ago
> polymer substitutes Which eventually adds to the mountains of non-bio-degradable plastic waste.
- ruined 6y ago
  definitely a concern, but that problem has solutions too
  - pmlnr 6y ago
    Care to share it with the world, that currently tries to deal with plastic pollution?
harimau777 6y ago
There are definitely issues where plant and polymers can be good substitutes but they often aren't as good. Plant based fabrics tend to have much worse performance than the animal derived alternatives. Granted, that doesn't apply to clothing being worn purely for fashion. Polymer based fabrics often do not wear well and may have issues with micro-plastics and outgassing.
silicon2401 6y ago
what is a comparable substitute to wool for textiles, especially for outdoorsing? genuine question as I'm not vegan but have been working to move away from animal products where feasible for me

drzaiusapelord 6y ago

Its not the 17th century anymore, we can make those things from non-animal components. Leather and lanolin are a wholly unneeded vanity and for the vain they can just do with alternatives.

pmlnr 6y ago
There is no all-in-one replacement for wool: it's insulating even when wet, it's fire-retardant, lightweight, has antibacterial and anti-mould properties, and it's bio-degradable. Regarding leather: if one cares for it, it last decades. No plastic replacement I ever had lasted as long as leather that was occasionally cleaned and greased.
- drzaiusapelord 6y ago
  Nearly everyone wears cotton or synthetics, no one "needs" wool the same way you don't need the unique light a whale oil lamp gives. These are, again, vanities for the vain at the cost of animal suffering. Wool is also very expensive and the environmental cost of raising all these animals outweighs the biodegradable benefits. Except in reality, leather is more or less a fast fashion item that comes and goes. People buy them and toss them as their fashion tastes dictate, again, its not the 17th century. Its very rare to have a leather coat you wear daily for decades. Even in poorer countries is expensive to get and treated mostly like a vanity item. Alternative fabrics and materials work just as well and they both end up in a landfill after a few years anyway. Also the leather industry is abusive and exploitative towards workers and exposes some of the most vulnerable people to carcinogens and poisons needed to "work" leather. Is your vanity item worth all this suffering?
  - pmlnr 6y ago
    > at the cost of animal suffering Go to a sheep farm, and watch the sheering. That PETA campaign was complete bs; most sheep actually await and enjoy being free from their fluff. EDIT: too many replacements are plastic, which is adding to the accumulation of plastic garbage.

yboris 6y ago

There are also problems with meat production: immense pollution of air, land, and water. And there are a multitude of negative health impacts with high meat consumption as well. And there's also the catastrophic moral failing: a staggering amount of inevitable abuse of sentient creatures when we look across the modern practices of growing animals for human consumption.

Gys 6y ago

Lamb is a very young sheep, so I guess those will not have much wool before being slaughtered? Anecdotally, I have Dutch family that kept sheep for a long time. They said the cost of shaving off the wool is often higher than the value of the wool.

maxerickson 6y ago

I wonder how many people are allergic to petrolatum and not lanolin.

zucker42 6y ago

To what extent do those needs have no replacements, and what percentage of livestock raised for food are used also for other products?

harimau777 6y ago
If you are avoiding synthetic fibers (e.g. due to concerns about microplastics or outgassing) then I am not aware of an alternative to wool. The big feature of wool is that, unlike plant fibers, it still insulates you when it gets wet. It also has anti-bacterial properties (so it tends not to get body odor as quickly) and is naturally flame retardant (which also separates it from most synthetic fibers). The faux-leather that I'm aware of seeks to replicate leather's look more than its performance. In particular leather tends to last much longer, develop a patina as it gets worn, doesn't melt when burnt, provides protection, etc. On the other hand, fabrics like kevlar and ballistic nylon can replicate some of leather's performance but not its look. Most of these also have the issues associated with synthetic fibers. Finally, there are semi-niche applications for vegetable tanned leather (which is the more traditional approach to tanning). Vegetable tanned leather becomes flexible when wet and holds its shape when it dries. That allows leather to be formed into shapes (e.g. armour for martial arts or cosplay, holsters and sheaths) and allows it to be tooled. I'm not aware of a faux-leather that acts that way.

mint2 6y ago

Aren’t meat sheep and wool sheep different?