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This is a really important step for the enviroment. In todays age it feels like some machines are constructed in a way so that they fail after a few years. Mean

This is a really important step for the enviroment. In todays age it feels like some machines are constructed in a way so that they fail after a few years. Meanwhile my parents are still using a fridge from like 15 years ago without a problem. Intrested in how this will develop!

dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
It will be very difficult to unwind. Years ago it was natural for electronic devices such as mobile phones to have a replaceable battery. Then a popular brand decided to make the battery irreplaceable by the consumer and the rest followed. The justification was the need to make thinner devices is far more important. Now user replaceable batteries are a rare thing in last generation devices, even in laptops! So call me skeptical if after a decade or so they will all go back to what we had before, when one could upgrade a HDD or memory in a typical laptop in a couple of minutes, and business models were even more easy to service.
- aequitas 6y ago
  But technology still advances, so in the future Apple will present their thin and battery replaceable revolutionary new iPhone.
- HPsquared 6y ago
  I prefer ~~products~~ PHONES where everything is glued together, it makes for a much stronger structure. Old phones which were screwed/clipped together were thick, bendy and creaky. Closed structures (think of an egg shell) are more structurally efficient. The price to pay is it's harder to open when you need to repair it, but that's a sometime-maybe-never activity, vs. using/holding it which is hours per day.
  - blub 6y ago
    Not true at all. High end Symbian phones were rock solid. One just has to use quality materials.
  - HorkHunter 6y ago
    the only phone people swear -or meme- by how strong and sturdy it is had a replaceable battery!
    - HPsquared 6y ago
      Strong yes but it's also thick and plasticky with wide borders around the (2-inch) screen. The battery is tiny. In other words: because of the construction method, lots of space is needed for structural elements. Large glass screens require a rigid structure (or a border of some kind).
      - southerntofu 6y ago
        > Strong yes but it's also thick and plasticky with wide borders A lot of people are pretty happy with that. For those that aren't, there's been a lot of progress in engineering in the past two decades since the 3310 came out. It's not impossible to make something strong, while enjoying newer features. If we had a conscious choice in the shop between a slimmer phone that'll break apart in 6 months, and a thicker phone we could keep for 10 years, most people i know would choose the latter. There's just no such information for customers. > The battery is tiny. That was a technical limitation of the time and does not apply to today's batteries.
      - diggernet 6y ago
        Just checked my Nokia collection... N800, E90, N8, N97, N900, N950, N9, E7, 920, 1020... Big screens, rock solid. Thicker than an iPhone? Sure. But most are thinner than the protective cases most folks I know put their iPhones in.
- anon98356 6y ago
  > So call me skeptical if after a decade or so they will all go back to what we had before. The implicication of the article is that they won't have a choice. If your product doesn't meet the repairability standards then you won't be able to sell in the EU.
xyzzy123 6y ago
Modern fridges are an interesting example. Most of the "active" parts and fittings are repairable with effort, even if manuals and parts are not easy to get. However in all modern fridges I have looked at, the structure is folded sheet metal which is not designed to be taken apart. Certain key panels cannot be opened out without distortion that will affect the fit. Inside the voids there is polystyrene (or similar) insulation. Eventually that insulation gets stinky and moldy and that is pretty much the end of the fridge because the insulation is inaccessible and cannot be replaced. You can try hitting it through vents, with bleach, but you cannot get it back to "as new". This kind of non-mechanical failure eventually renders the fridge un-usable for food. It seems like it would take an entirely different design to anything I have seen on the market to create a true "50 year fridge".
southerntofu 6y ago
Well it's not just a feeling. It's a conscious strategy that was developed by the industry after the first world war, because they were afraid over-production would lead to some kind of unprofitable luxury communism. It all started with the Phoebus cartel in the 1920's and what we nowadays called "planned obsolescence" is a worldwide strategy by the industry. A fridge is capable of lasting way more than 15 years. Many people use fridges or washing machines that are over 50 years. Anything that's not built to be repairable and last decades is just harmful to users and the environment. For example IoT is really something that should never exist.
- jen20 6y ago
  Have you looked into the energy consumption of a 50 year old refrigerator vs a modern one to determine that the modern one is an environmental harm?
  - southerntofu 6y ago
    Well i don't have links at hand but there's been plenty of studies in different fields (computers, cars) and overall the environmental costs of new hardware are always (to my knowledge) greater than the environmental costs of keeping inefficient hardware around. For example, it will without any doubt take more energy/ressources to build a Raspberry Pi than to keep your old desktop computer powered. However, from an economic perspective the opposite is true because as consumers we pay energy far greater prices than the industry does. Which means i can buy a raspberry pi for the price in electricity that my desktop would consume in a few years. That device will then use a lot less energy to run, but took so much to produce it's meaningless. That is, without even taking into consideration recycling concerns. Recycling for electronics mostly doesn't exist (see open-air landfills with children taking metals apart using dangerous chemicals), and in any case also requires energy/resources and produces pollution. We are economically incentivized to destroy the planet. All those "buy a new car" programs are not meant to save the planet, they're meant to save big corp profits by keeping everyone buying new stuff. That's what is really worrying in my view.
aaronmdjones 6y ago
Indeed. I've had the same generic white good counter-top dish washer for more than 9 years, and it's still working just fine, with absolutely no servicing or repairs whatsoever. They can be built to last, they just often aren't.

dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago

It will be very difficult to unwind. Years ago it was natural for electronic devices such as mobile phones to have a replaceable battery. Then a popular brand decided to make the battery irreplaceable by the consumer and the rest followed. The justification was the need to make thinner devices is far more important. Now user replaceable batteries are a rare thing in last generation devices, even in laptops! So call me skeptical if after a decade or so they will all go back to what we had before, when one could upgrade a HDD or memory in a typical laptop in a couple of minutes, and business models were even more easy to service.

aequitas 6y ago
But technology still advances, so in the future Apple will present their thin and battery replaceable revolutionary new iPhone.
HPsquared 6y ago
I prefer ~~products~~ PHONES where everything is glued together, it makes for a much stronger structure. Old phones which were screwed/clipped together were thick, bendy and creaky. Closed structures (think of an egg shell) are more structurally efficient. The price to pay is it's harder to open when you need to repair it, but that's a sometime-maybe-never activity, vs. using/holding it which is hours per day.
- blub 6y ago
  Not true at all. High end Symbian phones were rock solid. One just has to use quality materials.
- HorkHunter 6y ago
  the only phone people swear -or meme- by how strong and sturdy it is had a replaceable battery!
  - HPsquared 6y ago
    Strong yes but it's also thick and plasticky with wide borders around the (2-inch) screen. The battery is tiny. In other words: because of the construction method, lots of space is needed for structural elements. Large glass screens require a rigid structure (or a border of some kind).
    - southerntofu 6y ago
      > Strong yes but it's also thick and plasticky with wide borders A lot of people are pretty happy with that. For those that aren't, there's been a lot of progress in engineering in the past two decades since the 3310 came out. It's not impossible to make something strong, while enjoying newer features. If we had a conscious choice in the shop between a slimmer phone that'll break apart in 6 months, and a thicker phone we could keep for 10 years, most people i know would choose the latter. There's just no such information for customers. > The battery is tiny. That was a technical limitation of the time and does not apply to today's batteries.
    - diggernet 6y ago
      Just checked my Nokia collection... N800, E90, N8, N97, N900, N950, N9, E7, 920, 1020... Big screens, rock solid. Thicker than an iPhone? Sure. But most are thinner than the protective cases most folks I know put their iPhones in.
anon98356 6y ago
> So call me skeptical if after a decade or so they will all go back to what we had before. The implicication of the article is that they won't have a choice. If your product doesn't meet the repairability standards then you won't be able to sell in the EU.

xyzzy123 6y ago

Modern fridges are an interesting example. Most of the "active" parts and fittings are repairable with effort, even if manuals and parts are not easy to get. However in all modern fridges I have looked at, the structure is folded sheet metal which is not designed to be taken apart. Certain key panels cannot be opened out without distortion that will affect the fit. Inside the voids there is polystyrene (or similar) insulation. Eventually that insulation gets stinky and moldy and that is pretty much the end of the fridge because the insulation is inaccessible and cannot be replaced. You can try hitting it through vents, with bleach, but you cannot get it back to "as new". This kind of non-mechanical failure eventually renders the fridge un-usable for food. It seems like it would take an entirely different design to anything I have seen on the market to create a true "50 year fridge".

southerntofu 6y ago

Well it's not just a feeling. It's a conscious strategy that was developed by the industry after the first world war, because they were afraid over-production would lead to some kind of unprofitable luxury communism. It all started with the Phoebus cartel in the 1920's and what we nowadays called "planned obsolescence" is a worldwide strategy by the industry. A fridge is capable of lasting way more than 15 years. Many people use fridges or washing machines that are over 50 years. Anything that's not built to be repairable and last decades is just harmful to users and the environment. For example IoT is really something that should never exist.

jen20 6y ago
Have you looked into the energy consumption of a 50 year old refrigerator vs a modern one to determine that the modern one is an environmental harm?
- southerntofu 6y ago
  Well i don't have links at hand but there's been plenty of studies in different fields (computers, cars) and overall the environmental costs of new hardware are always (to my knowledge) greater than the environmental costs of keeping inefficient hardware around. For example, it will without any doubt take more energy/ressources to build a Raspberry Pi than to keep your old desktop computer powered. However, from an economic perspective the opposite is true because as consumers we pay energy far greater prices than the industry does. Which means i can buy a raspberry pi for the price in electricity that my desktop would consume in a few years. That device will then use a lot less energy to run, but took so much to produce it's meaningless. That is, without even taking into consideration recycling concerns. Recycling for electronics mostly doesn't exist (see open-air landfills with children taking metals apart using dangerous chemicals), and in any case also requires energy/resources and produces pollution. We are economically incentivized to destroy the planet. All those "buy a new car" programs are not meant to save the planet, they're meant to save big corp profits by keeping everyone buying new stuff. That's what is really worrying in my view.

aaronmdjones 6y ago

Indeed. I've had the same generic white good counter-top dish washer for more than 9 years, and it's still working just fine, with absolutely no servicing or repairs whatsoever. They can be built to last, they just often aren't.