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Yet in real life games like Genshin Impact implement most of the techniques you find morally wrong yet the game has actual gameplay and most people playing it h

Yet in real life games like Genshin Impact implement most of the techniques you find morally wrong yet the game has actual gameplay and most people playing it have no problem with it. Real life is more complex than the binary way of thinking you propose, and games often implement these techniques with valid reasons behind it other than simply making money or exploiting people. The problem is people acting poorly, and not the techniques in and of themselves.

Bancakes 6y ago
Interesting. Can you name some valid, non-monetary reasons to have lootboxes?
- adnzzzzZ 6y ago
  In the same way that randomness in a roguelite leads to you feeling really good when you find an item that is cool and that you didn't expect to get, you have that same mechanic taking place when you either save enough in-game currency or use real money to buy a new lootbox and get a new item/character. It's a different mode of accessing gameplay that is random, and just like in a game that abuses this mechanic to keep people playing for hundreds of hours (roguelites), these mobile games also do that, except with the possibility of paying real life money.
  - Bancakes 6y ago
    What you described is a planned dopamine release you have to pay for. I was under the impression the gameplay itself is there to make you have fun - if you have lootboxes, you're compensating for gameplay, or more likely, are doing it for monetary reasons.
    - adnzzzzZ 6y ago
      Well, anything that involves a monetary exchange can be described as "for monetary reasons". I explained to you that a non-monetary reason is similar to the reasoning behind similar mechanics in roguelites, which generally do not ask the player for payment. I can even make the same argument you made instead about roguelites: "What you described is planned dopamine release you have to wait for. I was under the impression the gameplay itself is there to make you have fun - if you have RNG, you're compensating for gameplay, or more likely, are doing it for nefarious reasons such as extending the amount of time people play your game for." Yet roguelites are not seen as morally wrong at all. Why? They're both using the same mechanic, except one lets you pay to skip the RNG-gating.
      - Bancakes 6y ago
        No roguelike ever had a locked chest that wasn't meant to be open. Lootboxes aren't meant to be open unless you pay.
        adnzzzzZ 6y ago
        Plenty of roguelikes or roguelites have locked chests that can only be opened after you play for an arbitrarily long amount of time. That is the same as a lootbox in a game that lets you buy lootboxes with in-game currency at a slower rate than if you paid for them, such as the example I gave with Genshin Impact, where you can open lootboxes while paying nothing but the game is also structured to incentivize you to pay.
        esperent 6y ago
        Games that are designed to suck hundreds of hours of your time and cause addiction are nearly as bad as games designed to tempt minors and vulnerable people into gambling. I'm not sure why you're bringing up the former as a defense of the latter.
        adnzzzzZ 6y ago
        I bring it up because the majority of people who have a problem with mobile games do not have a problem with roguelites. Either you have a problem with both or with none. I'm firmly in the none camp, it seems like you're in the both camp. Either way, singling out mobile games like the text in Godot's documentation did is a mistake.
        unionpivo 6y ago
        No that's you putting words into my or OP's mouth. I don't have a problem with roguelikes, but I do have a problem with mobile games. One is optimized to provide gameplay experience and fun, the other one is to extract as much money as humanly possible from their users. The fact that they might use some of the same building blocks doesn't mean that end result is similar. Just like playing poker and uno might use some similar mechanics (cards) that doesn't make them equal games. One is regulated the other one isnt. Or you throwing dice in monopoly and craps
  - esperent 6y ago
    You have just described gambling exactly. The problem is, in most places it's illegal for minors to gamble and it's likely that the majority of Genshin Impacts players are minors.
esperent 6y ago
Genshin Impact is notorious for preying on it's users and monetizing everything they possibly can. The only difference from other similarly monetized games is that they included an actual fun game - although they stole plenty of assets and animations apparently, e.g. from Niers Automata (ironic because that game is the epitome of a game that was clearly made with love and has no microtransactions).
darren_ 6y ago
Genshin Impact is an example of a game where the gameplay is intrinsically designed to facilitate the monetization though - it's taking what would be perfectly alright gameplay, and making it _really shitty_, so they can monetize. A Genshin Impact that cost full price but had no 'original resin' garbage, no running the same boss a dozen times (but only 4 times a day unless you pay!) to 'ascend' a character, that didn't gate most of the actually effective characters behind gacha pulls, might actually be a decent game. Probably wouldn't have made as much money though.
- adnzzzzZ 6y ago
  Clearly most people aren't bothered by it as it's an extremely popular game that has remained popular months after release. If it was just a quick low quality cash grab people would have moved on, but they haven't. So you have to come to terms with the fact that reality is rejecting your particular perspective on the issue.
  - darren_ 6y ago
    How do you know people haven't moved on? Have you got Genshin Impact analytics that the rest of us don't? It's free and getting lots of installs as you'd expect - how do you know if people are sticking with it? It's a perfectly fine game for the first quite-a-few-hours and then suddenly turns into an appalling grindfest (and yes, the 'quality' is clearly front-loaded, the game drops off a cliff once you get to Liyue)
    - adnzzzzZ 6y ago
      Does it seem like a game that's consistently getting millions of views on videos about each update is experiencing some kind of serious decline in popularity? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH9vMZBwAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH9vMZBwAk
  - mercurysmessage 6y ago
    That isn't a clear cut answer to the game being played, they can play it and not be happy with some of the games practices, we really don't know unless a study is done. Anecdotally All of my friends who play games hate microtransactions and loot boxes. Some don't care if it's only cosmetic though.

Bancakes 6y ago

Interesting. Can you name some valid, non-monetary reasons to have lootboxes?

adnzzzzZ 6y ago
In the same way that randomness in a roguelite leads to you feeling really good when you find an item that is cool and that you didn't expect to get, you have that same mechanic taking place when you either save enough in-game currency or use real money to buy a new lootbox and get a new item/character. It's a different mode of accessing gameplay that is random, and just like in a game that abuses this mechanic to keep people playing for hundreds of hours (roguelites), these mobile games also do that, except with the possibility of paying real life money.
- Bancakes 6y ago
  What you described is a planned dopamine release you have to pay for. I was under the impression the gameplay itself is there to make you have fun - if you have lootboxes, you're compensating for gameplay, or more likely, are doing it for monetary reasons.
  - adnzzzzZ 6y ago
    Well, anything that involves a monetary exchange can be described as "for monetary reasons". I explained to you that a non-monetary reason is similar to the reasoning behind similar mechanics in roguelites, which generally do not ask the player for payment. I can even make the same argument you made instead about roguelites: "What you described is planned dopamine release you have to wait for. I was under the impression the gameplay itself is there to make you have fun - if you have RNG, you're compensating for gameplay, or more likely, are doing it for nefarious reasons such as extending the amount of time people play your game for." Yet roguelites are not seen as morally wrong at all. Why? They're both using the same mechanic, except one lets you pay to skip the RNG-gating.
    - Bancakes 6y ago
      No roguelike ever had a locked chest that wasn't meant to be open. Lootboxes aren't meant to be open unless you pay.
      - adnzzzzZ 6y ago
        Plenty of roguelikes or roguelites have locked chests that can only be opened after you play for an arbitrarily long amount of time. That is the same as a lootbox in a game that lets you buy lootboxes with in-game currency at a slower rate than if you paid for them, such as the example I gave with Genshin Impact, where you can open lootboxes while paying nothing but the game is also structured to incentivize you to pay.
        esperent 6y ago
        Games that are designed to suck hundreds of hours of your time and cause addiction are nearly as bad as games designed to tempt minors and vulnerable people into gambling. I'm not sure why you're bringing up the former as a defense of the latter.
        adnzzzzZ 6y ago
        I bring it up because the majority of people who have a problem with mobile games do not have a problem with roguelites. Either you have a problem with both or with none. I'm firmly in the none camp, it seems like you're in the both camp. Either way, singling out mobile games like the text in Godot's documentation did is a mistake.
        unionpivo 6y ago
        No that's you putting words into my or OP's mouth. I don't have a problem with roguelikes, but I do have a problem with mobile games. One is optimized to provide gameplay experience and fun, the other one is to extract as much money as humanly possible from their users. The fact that they might use some of the same building blocks doesn't mean that end result is similar. Just like playing poker and uno might use some similar mechanics (cards) that doesn't make them equal games. One is regulated the other one isnt. Or you throwing dice in monopoly and craps
- esperent 6y ago
  You have just described gambling exactly. The problem is, in most places it's illegal for minors to gamble and it's likely that the majority of Genshin Impacts players are minors.

esperent 6y ago

Genshin Impact is notorious for preying on it's users and monetizing everything they possibly can. The only difference from other similarly monetized games is that they included an actual fun game - although they stole plenty of assets and animations apparently, e.g. from Niers Automata (ironic because that game is the epitome of a game that was clearly made with love and has no microtransactions).

darren_ 6y ago

Genshin Impact is an example of a game where the gameplay is intrinsically designed to facilitate the monetization though - it's taking what would be perfectly alright gameplay, and making it _really shitty_, so they can monetize. A Genshin Impact that cost full price but had no 'original resin' garbage, no running the same boss a dozen times (but only 4 times a day unless you pay!) to 'ascend' a character, that didn't gate most of the actually effective characters behind gacha pulls, might actually be a decent game. Probably wouldn't have made as much money though.

adnzzzzZ 6y ago
Clearly most people aren't bothered by it as it's an extremely popular game that has remained popular months after release. If it was just a quick low quality cash grab people would have moved on, but they haven't. So you have to come to terms with the fact that reality is rejecting your particular perspective on the issue.
- darren_ 6y ago
  How do you know people haven't moved on? Have you got Genshin Impact analytics that the rest of us don't? It's free and getting lots of installs as you'd expect - how do you know if people are sticking with it? It's a perfectly fine game for the first quite-a-few-hours and then suddenly turns into an appalling grindfest (and yes, the 'quality' is clearly front-loaded, the game drops off a cliff once you get to Liyue)
  - adnzzzzZ 6y ago
    Does it seem like a game that's consistently getting millions of views on videos about each update is experiencing some kind of serious decline in popularity? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH9vMZBwAk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrH9vMZBwAk
- mercurysmessage 6y ago
  That isn't a clear cut answer to the game being played, they can play it and not be happy with some of the games practices, we really don't know unless a study is done. Anecdotally All of my friends who play games hate microtransactions and loot boxes. Some don't care if it's only cosmetic though.