8 ms·

I believe the real news is "took their seven-year-old mobile games studio public Friday, and the stock doubled" which is impressive, but one of them had been in

I believe the real news is "took their seven-year-old mobile games studio public Friday, and the stock doubled" which is impressive, but one of them had been in investment banking before and both appear to have been independently wealthy before. Plus their games serve a well established genre. So this isn't quite the new idea rags to riches story that it is presented as. Mostly, this says a lot about how Japanese society still has clear gender roles.

gher-shyu3i 6y ago
> Mostly, this says a lot about how Japanese society still has clear gender roles. What are you implying? That that's a bad thing? Otherwise, I apologize for assuming incorrectly.
- mod 6y ago
  I just read it as an observation, not a judgement. Not GP but I'm glad there's some variety in the world.
  - AndrewDucker 6y ago
    Surely you get more variety when not pushing people into roles?
    - Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
      Yes, and the variety that you get will not look like 50%/50% gender spread in every single field and profession, because there are innate differences between genders that come to the surface the more you remove social pressure and tyranny. That's literally the core argument of what Jordan B Peterson has been saying, and he has been getting a lot of flak in the mainstream media for that. So it's a controversial topic for some reason.
      - vmception 6y ago
        which has nothing to do with video games, investment banking, and identifying capital misallocation in certain sectors for maximum money
      - watwut 6y ago
        You won't get the 93%/7% split either in most non physical professions. The small differences that are there can explain the massive differences.
        yakshaving_jgt 6y ago
        What are you basing this claim on? What is the right split for a given profession, and how do you know?
        Shugarl 6y ago
        Not op, but what difference between men and women would justify such a gap, if not a cultural one ? We can't know for sure what's the right split, But I'd argue it's as unlikely to be 50/50 than it is to be close to 100/0 in fields where women aren't at a physical disavantage.
        yakshaving_jgt 6y ago
        I don't study this, but as far as I'm aware there are biological differences between men and women on average that are neither physically advantageous nor disadvantageous. This appears to be supported by this study[0]. [0]: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6412/eaas9899 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6412/eaas9899
        roenxi 6y ago
        There is a slight biological bias in favour of men (105 men for every 100 women at birth) and that, combined with the whole womb thing, give women a lot of short term say over the circumstances where families are established. It is enough of an imbalance to cause fierce competition amongst the men. Assuming a nuclear family and sensible family planning, it is highly likely that a bunch of men will not get to have families. The men working hard to make money are in a fairly high-stakes game to break into the gene pool, biologically speaking. It isn't surprising to me that the men take working a lot more seriously. Every generation nature is roughly planning to cull ~1 man in 20 before life even starts. Individually it might not get acknowledged but that is a mighty biasing force over even 2 generations of cultural development. Being the lowest status man in the room has an implicit evolutionary threat in the way that being the lowest status woman doesn't.
    - koonsolo 6y ago
      Depends on what you call "pushing". The west seems to push women into non-female roles, and the others into female roles. It's hard to get that kind of variety into a single society. So it's nice that societies differ.
      - astrange 6y ago
        Female and non-female roles in societies are assigned post-hoc. Is having a college degree female? Owning the family bank account? The answers to these are different in the US and Japan, and they're different now and in 1990.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        danielscrubs 6y ago
        For those that don’t know, usually the woman owns the bank account and gives the husband an allowance: https://www.japan-talk.com/jt/new/okozukai https://www.japan-talk.com/jt/new/okozukai Of course, everything is changing in a rapid pace.
        astrange 6y ago
        Supposedly the wife also pays the husband's mistress because it's easier to get her to go away. This may be an urban legend.
    - collyw 6y ago
      Apparently not. Look up the gender equality paradox, more egalitarian countries (Scandinavian countries are used as the example) tend to have males / females in more stereotypical roles. Sadly Wikipedia shows it's bias with articles like that one.
- unishark 6y ago
  I'm not sure but I think they're somewhat disapprovingly referring to the "otome" games, which appear to be something like romance fiction in game form. I hadn't realized the rest of the developed world had moved past such things already..
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  I meant that this story is mainly newsworthy because women doing an IPO is very uncommon in Japan. I don't remember reading much about Julie Wainwright, who did the "The RealReal" IPO at 8x the market cap in the US 2 years ago. As for gender roles, I believe they can both be harmful (if forced upon you) and very helpful (if voluntarily agreed upon). As an example, I rarely worry about my bad cooking skills these days, because my wife is exceptionally good at it. So in effect, we have created a traditional role of "the woman in the kitchen", but it's the result of us trying to optimize how things work out for us, not because of some external societal pressure. Similarly, "guys carrying heavy stuff" is such a cliche because it usually works well, due to differences in biological growth. I'm 15% taller than my wife, and for some tasks that makes all the difference between easy and horrible.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
    > As an example, I rarely worry about my bad cooking skills these days, because my wife is exceptionally good at it. But that's not a gender role, that's one person being a better cook.
    - fxtentacle 6y ago
      Yes but it looks like gender roles from the outside.
kenneth 6y ago
How does "twin sisters" imply a rags to riches story? You seem to be implying that because the headline mentions the success of a female team in taking public a games studio making games for a female market, it somehow implies they must have come from nothing and struggled? Instead, we should be celebrating their ingenuity in seeing a wildly undeserved market and succeeding at building something successful yo cater to it. This is something we can all aspire to instead of making it about gender.
- fxtentacle 6y ago
  "Twin sisters in Japan have become multi-millionaires after ..." reads to me like they suddenly became wealthy. But in reality, they likely went from "millionaires" to "multi-millionaires". At least, it looks like their revenue (and thus estimated company value) grew linearly in recent years: https://ipoget.com/ipo-colyinc/ https://ipoget.com/ipo-colyinc/
  - elindbe3 6y ago
    So, in other words, they became multi-millionaires. I think your reading too much into it, just take the words as written.
- h0l0cube 6y ago
  Have to double down on this. The article makes the point that the female gaming community is underserved, and that a mostly female game studio reaching this level of success is exceptional, maybe even unprecedented. That's the content of the article, and it's newsworthiness is hard to fault here. Not sure why people need to make loud defences of IDW personalities or invoke statistical differences in competencies across genders.
- kiba 6y ago
  * How does "twin sisters" imply a rags to riches story? You seem to be implying that because the headline mentions the success of a female team in taking public a games studio making games for a female market, it somehow implies they must have come from nothing and struggled?* It doesn't. However people do jump to conclusion. I also assumed that it's a rags to riches story, however incorrect it is.

gher-shyu3i 6y ago

> Mostly, this says a lot about how Japanese society still has clear gender roles. What are you implying? That that's a bad thing? Otherwise, I apologize for assuming incorrectly.

mod 6y ago
I just read it as an observation, not a judgement. Not GP but I'm glad there's some variety in the world.
- AndrewDucker 6y ago
  Surely you get more variety when not pushing people into roles?
  - Erlich_Bachman 6y ago
    Yes, and the variety that you get will not look like 50%/50% gender spread in every single field and profession, because there are innate differences between genders that come to the surface the more you remove social pressure and tyranny. That's literally the core argument of what Jordan B Peterson has been saying, and he has been getting a lot of flak in the mainstream media for that. So it's a controversial topic for some reason.
    - vmception 6y ago
      which has nothing to do with video games, investment banking, and identifying capital misallocation in certain sectors for maximum money
    - watwut 6y ago
      You won't get the 93%/7% split either in most non physical professions. The small differences that are there can explain the massive differences.
      - yakshaving_jgt 6y ago
        What are you basing this claim on? What is the right split for a given profession, and how do you know?
        Shugarl 6y ago
        Not op, but what difference between men and women would justify such a gap, if not a cultural one ? We can't know for sure what's the right split, But I'd argue it's as unlikely to be 50/50 than it is to be close to 100/0 in fields where women aren't at a physical disavantage.
        yakshaving_jgt 6y ago
        I don't study this, but as far as I'm aware there are biological differences between men and women on average that are neither physically advantageous nor disadvantageous. This appears to be supported by this study[0]. [0]: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6412/eaas9899 https://science.sciencemag.org/content/362/6412/eaas9899
        roenxi 6y ago
        There is a slight biological bias in favour of men (105 men for every 100 women at birth) and that, combined with the whole womb thing, give women a lot of short term say over the circumstances where families are established. It is enough of an imbalance to cause fierce competition amongst the men. Assuming a nuclear family and sensible family planning, it is highly likely that a bunch of men will not get to have families. The men working hard to make money are in a fairly high-stakes game to break into the gene pool, biologically speaking. It isn't surprising to me that the men take working a lot more seriously. Every generation nature is roughly planning to cull ~1 man in 20 before life even starts. Individually it might not get acknowledged but that is a mighty biasing force over even 2 generations of cultural development. Being the lowest status man in the room has an implicit evolutionary threat in the way that being the lowest status woman doesn't.
  - koonsolo 6y ago
    Depends on what you call "pushing". The west seems to push women into non-female roles, and the others into female roles. It's hard to get that kind of variety into a single society. So it's nice that societies differ.
    - astrange 6y ago
      Female and non-female roles in societies are assigned post-hoc. Is having a college degree female? Owning the family bank account? The answers to these are different in the US and Japan, and they're different now and in 1990.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - danielscrubs 6y ago
        For those that don’t know, usually the woman owns the bank account and gives the husband an allowance: https://www.japan-talk.com/jt/new/okozukai https://www.japan-talk.com/jt/new/okozukai Of course, everything is changing in a rapid pace.
        astrange 6y ago
        Supposedly the wife also pays the husband's mistress because it's easier to get her to go away. This may be an urban legend.
  - collyw 6y ago
    Apparently not. Look up the gender equality paradox, more egalitarian countries (Scandinavian countries are used as the example) tend to have males / females in more stereotypical roles. Sadly Wikipedia shows it's bias with articles like that one.
unishark 6y ago
I'm not sure but I think they're somewhat disapprovingly referring to the "otome" games, which appear to be something like romance fiction in game form. I hadn't realized the rest of the developed world had moved past such things already..
fxtentacle 6y ago
I meant that this story is mainly newsworthy because women doing an IPO is very uncommon in Japan. I don't remember reading much about Julie Wainwright, who did the "The RealReal" IPO at 8x the market cap in the US 2 years ago. As for gender roles, I believe they can both be harmful (if forced upon you) and very helpful (if voluntarily agreed upon). As an example, I rarely worry about my bad cooking skills these days, because my wife is exceptionally good at it. So in effect, we have created a traditional role of "the woman in the kitchen", but it's the result of us trying to optimize how things work out for us, not because of some external societal pressure. Similarly, "guys carrying heavy stuff" is such a cliche because it usually works well, due to differences in biological growth. I'm 15% taller than my wife, and for some tasks that makes all the difference between easy and horrible.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  > As an example, I rarely worry about my bad cooking skills these days, because my wife is exceptionally good at it. But that's not a gender role, that's one person being a better cook.
  - fxtentacle 6y ago
    Yes but it looks like gender roles from the outside.

kenneth 6y ago

How does "twin sisters" imply a rags to riches story? You seem to be implying that because the headline mentions the success of a female team in taking public a games studio making games for a female market, it somehow implies they must have come from nothing and struggled? Instead, we should be celebrating their ingenuity in seeing a wildly undeserved market and succeeding at building something successful yo cater to it. This is something we can all aspire to instead of making it about gender.

fxtentacle 6y ago
"Twin sisters in Japan have become multi-millionaires after ..." reads to me like they suddenly became wealthy. But in reality, they likely went from "millionaires" to "multi-millionaires". At least, it looks like their revenue (and thus estimated company value) grew linearly in recent years: https://ipoget.com/ipo-colyinc/ https://ipoget.com/ipo-colyinc/
- elindbe3 6y ago
  So, in other words, they became multi-millionaires. I think your reading too much into it, just take the words as written.
h0l0cube 6y ago
Have to double down on this. The article makes the point that the female gaming community is underserved, and that a mostly female game studio reaching this level of success is exceptional, maybe even unprecedented. That's the content of the article, and it's newsworthiness is hard to fault here. Not sure why people need to make loud defences of IDW personalities or invoke statistical differences in competencies across genders.
kiba 6y ago
* How does "twin sisters" imply a rags to riches story? You seem to be implying that because the headline mentions the success of a female team in taking public a games studio making games for a female market, it somehow implies they must have come from nothing and struggled?* It doesn't. However people do jump to conclusion. I also assumed that it's a rags to riches story, however incorrect it is.