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I've read that up to 76% of the medical professional in some EU countries are refusing the vaccine, so I wonder why they do that if the science is so valid. An

by 1996 6y ago

I've read that up to 76% of the medical professional in some EU countries are refusing the vaccine, so I wonder why they do that if the science is so valid. Antivaxx craze and fake news network effects can only explain so much.

Sebguer 6y ago
This kind of quoting of a "scary sounding" statistic is why people get called anti-vaxx. You heard something, and are repeating it with the intent to cause people to worry, without providing any actual facts. I looked it up. 76% of "nursing home staff" in France are refusing the vaccine. I don't generally take my vaccination advice from people working in care homes, and the Reuters article implies that it is generally because these employees are skeptical of the government, not on any scientific basis: https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-france-vaccines/on-the-covid-19-frontline-but-half-of-french-care-home-workers-dont-trust-vaccine-idUSL5N2KZ6I2 https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-france-va...
- jamespetercook 6y ago
  Great sleuthing, thanks
- tim333 6y ago
  This article has the 76% figure https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-health-workers-remain-sceptical-of-Covid-vaccine https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-health-wo... >Why the scepticism? >The nurse who spoke to FranceInfo said that the arguments her colleagues gave against the vaccine were typical of those being shared often online. >“It’s too fast, there is a lack of objectivity, the vaccine is hiding something, why have they still not found a vaccine against AIDS...” she said. Which seems more like general news story type arguments rather than anything scientific
bsder 6y ago
> I've read that up to 76% of the medical professional in some EU countries are refusing the vaccine, so I wonder why they do that is the science is so valid. Cite or you get a downvote. Name the country and the vaccine type. Would I take any of Moderna, J&J, etc. developed under scrutiny and forced to open their data to the public? Sure. Would I take one of the Russian or Chinese vaccines that have had questionable data releases? Probably not.
- Sebguer 6y ago
  This FT article mentions the 76%, but the reference article is paywalled. It talks about specifically nursing home employees, so your skepticism is well warranted. This article from Reuters was the best un-paywalled one I could find, but lacks the % claim: https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-france-vaccines/on-the-covid-19-frontline-but-half-of-french-care-home-workers-dont-trust-vaccine-idUSL5N2KZ6I2 https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-france-va...
- 1996 6y ago
  > Cite or you get a downvote. Relax I just wrote from memory - I remembed the number, not the source, but someone gave an actual source. Happy? > Would I take one of the Russian or Chinese vaccines that have had questionable data releases? Probably not. I will happily take any vaccine that has been tested over 10M peoplefor over 1 year - even better if it's a tried and true old technology (not mRNA) like at least Astra Zeneca. Until then, I will wait and let the other find out the potential dangers for me. I am young and healthy, almost no risk, so waiting won't change my plans or behaviours. And I don't presume to tell anyone what they should do (even if I really prefer if everybody got vaccinated, for herd immunity) - just what I am doing for myself.
  - stickfigure 6y ago
    You'd rather take your chances with the virus? Or do you plan on hibernating for another 12 months? I hope you don't imagine that any of the rest of us are going to share your caution.
  - bsder 6y ago
    And quoting the cite: > One reason for the scepticism is that those recommending the vaccine are the same people - the French state - whom care home workers blame for their low pay and tough working conditions, said Malika Belarbi, a care worker and trade union official. So, basically, this has nothing to do with whether the vaccines are or are not medically okay but everything to do with the fact that the workers don't trust the people who have crapped on them. And, when you say care workers, normally those people are NOT medical professionals (most, in fact, are probably immigrant labor). The downvote stays.
paublyrne 6y ago
Not sure where this number is from. One of the main challenges of vaccine takeup in France and Germany (including health staff) is more about having a preference for the higher efficacy vaccines over the AstraZenica. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56242617 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56242617
- tzs 6y ago
  In the case of health staff, that might actually be a good idea. From what I've read, all of the vaccines approved for emergency use so far in the US and EU stop 100% or close to it of severe cases and hospitalizations. Vaccinated people who get COVID get a case that is no worse than a mild to moderate seasonal flu. The high efficacy vaccines reduces your chances of getting COVID at all quite a bit more than the ones with lesser efficacy. For someone like me, who works at home and only goes out every so often for groceries, if I get COVID there is a very good chance I'll notice symptoms before I would next go out, and so can quarantine myself and not spread it. My main concern, then, is ensuring that if I do catch it I get at most a mild case. Any of the vaccines will do that for me, so for me it makes the most sense to take the first one offered to me. For health staff, they won't be working at home. If they get COVID they might have plenty of chances to spread it in the couple of days or so it takes to start showing symptoms. And the people they will be spreading it to, besides other health workers, will include people who are already weakened from whatever they have come to the doctor or hospital to have treated. So for health staff we need more than just turning their cases mild. We want to stop them from getting it in the first place. Hence, they should be getting the high efficacy vaccines.

by 1996 6y ago

Sebguer 6y ago

This kind of quoting of a "scary sounding" statistic is why people get called anti-vaxx. You heard something, and are repeating it with the intent to cause people to worry, without providing any actual facts. I looked it up. 76% of "nursing home staff" in France are refusing the vaccine. I don't generally take my vaccination advice from people working in care homes, and the Reuters article implies that it is generally because these employees are skeptical of the government, not on any scientific basis: https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-france-vaccines/on-the-covid-19-frontline-but-half-of-french-care-home-workers-dont-trust-vaccine-idUSL5N2KZ6I2 https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-france-va...

jamespetercook 6y ago
Great sleuthing, thanks
tim333 6y ago
This article has the 76% figure https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-health-workers-remain-sceptical-of-Covid-vaccine https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/French-health-wo... >Why the scepticism? >The nurse who spoke to FranceInfo said that the arguments her colleagues gave against the vaccine were typical of those being shared often online. >“It’s too fast, there is a lack of objectivity, the vaccine is hiding something, why have they still not found a vaccine against AIDS...” she said. Which seems more like general news story type arguments rather than anything scientific

bsder 6y ago

> I've read that up to 76% of the medical professional in some EU countries are refusing the vaccine, so I wonder why they do that is the science is so valid. Cite or you get a downvote. Name the country and the vaccine type. Would I take any of Moderna, J&J, etc. developed under scrutiny and forced to open their data to the public? Sure. Would I take one of the Russian or Chinese vaccines that have had questionable data releases? Probably not.

Sebguer 6y ago
This FT article mentions the 76%, but the reference article is paywalled. It talks about specifically nursing home employees, so your skepticism is well warranted. This article from Reuters was the best un-paywalled one I could find, but lacks the % claim: https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-france-vaccines/on-the-covid-19-frontline-but-half-of-french-care-home-workers-dont-trust-vaccine-idUSL5N2KZ6I2 https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-france-va...
1996 6y ago
> Cite or you get a downvote. Relax I just wrote from memory - I remembed the number, not the source, but someone gave an actual source. Happy? > Would I take one of the Russian or Chinese vaccines that have had questionable data releases? Probably not. I will happily take any vaccine that has been tested over 10M peoplefor over 1 year - even better if it's a tried and true old technology (not mRNA) like at least Astra Zeneca. Until then, I will wait and let the other find out the potential dangers for me. I am young and healthy, almost no risk, so waiting won't change my plans or behaviours. And I don't presume to tell anyone what they should do (even if I really prefer if everybody got vaccinated, for herd immunity) - just what I am doing for myself.
- stickfigure 6y ago
  You'd rather take your chances with the virus? Or do you plan on hibernating for another 12 months? I hope you don't imagine that any of the rest of us are going to share your caution.
- bsder 6y ago
  And quoting the cite: > One reason for the scepticism is that those recommending the vaccine are the same people - the French state - whom care home workers blame for their low pay and tough working conditions, said Malika Belarbi, a care worker and trade union official. So, basically, this has nothing to do with whether the vaccines are or are not medically okay but everything to do with the fact that the workers don't trust the people who have crapped on them. And, when you say care workers, normally those people are NOT medical professionals (most, in fact, are probably immigrant labor). The downvote stays.

paublyrne 6y ago

Not sure where this number is from. One of the main challenges of vaccine takeup in France and Germany (including health staff) is more about having a preference for the higher efficacy vaccines over the AstraZenica. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56242617 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56242617

tzs 6y ago
In the case of health staff, that might actually be a good idea. From what I've read, all of the vaccines approved for emergency use so far in the US and EU stop 100% or close to it of severe cases and hospitalizations. Vaccinated people who get COVID get a case that is no worse than a mild to moderate seasonal flu. The high efficacy vaccines reduces your chances of getting COVID at all quite a bit more than the ones with lesser efficacy. For someone like me, who works at home and only goes out every so often for groceries, if I get COVID there is a very good chance I'll notice symptoms before I would next go out, and so can quarantine myself and not spread it. My main concern, then, is ensuring that if I do catch it I get at most a mild case. Any of the vaccines will do that for me, so for me it makes the most sense to take the first one offered to me. For health staff, they won't be working at home. If they get COVID they might have plenty of chances to spread it in the couple of days or so it takes to start showing symptoms. And the people they will be spreading it to, besides other health workers, will include people who are already weakened from whatever they have come to the doctor or hospital to have treated. So for health staff we need more than just turning their cases mild. We want to stop them from getting it in the first place. Hence, they should be getting the high efficacy vaccines.