7 ms·

Wow, it is actually shocking how disgusting the CEO's comments are.

gkoberger 6y ago
Yeah, he's the worst. I knew him in YC, and actually liked him. But I watched him spiral as he wasn't able to raise money for his startup, including starting to go to Trump rallies "out of curiosity". His FB posts began to include worse and worse rhetoric. It was crazy to watch him get radicalized in realtime. It ended in him harassing some (minority) YC founders who said they were scared by saying we should "Build the wall". (Edit: His comments were worse than I let on; here's the full context https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...)
- konjin 6y ago
  I'm a minority, and I feel really fucking stupid that I have to say that so I don't get banned, but how on earth can anyone get expelled for saying they support the policy of the US government? That is insular to the point of caricature for out of touch democrat staffing aids, not people trying to make money.
  - gkoberger 6y ago
    Sorry, that's my fault, I'm going to edit my comment. I downplayed what he said. Here's the full comments: https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...
    - konjin 6y ago
      Ok, I can see why you'd get expelled over that.
  - kyrra 6y ago
    .
    - konjin 6y ago
      That isn't anger, it's genuine incredulity.
  - akhilcacharya 6y ago
    As someone that is also a minority, I'm both aware and heartbroken that it became a very popular form of bullying towards children after 2015 [0]. Racist bullying isn't new of course, but this particular phrase is fairly new. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/local/school-bullying-trump-words/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/local/school-bu...
  - calciphus 6y ago
    Private groups don't have to swear fealty to the government. Individuals are allowed and encouraged to dissent, form groups of dissention, and don't owe it to anyone to grant them access to that group. Regardless of one's personal politics, insisting "if the government says it's ok, you shouldn't be allowed to reject someone who supports it" isn't really in line with the core ideals of the US, where YC is organized.
    - konjin 6y ago
      Alienating 50% of customers, and lets be honest these are the stupider customers you can more easily monetize, is not a good move for anyone trying to make money, which is the point of a startup. A well thought out Gab that was politically neutral will be able to steal the most engaged facebook users and then then sell them gold, guns and bibles, or whatever else those folks enjoy in their spare time. This isn't an issue of morals, it's an issue of money.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - 8note 6y ago
    Not everyone agrees with the policies of the US government, including private businessess
  - s5300 6y ago
    Getting into the realm of Reddit tier comments in replying to this... But in a genuine attempt to clear you up - The people who made Nazi Germany a thing were "just citizens of Germany supporting the policy of the German government." Institutions, such as YC, typically tend to have a set of morals/guidelines that they follow (and usually clearly state) If it so happens that a policy of the US government goes against said morals/guidelines and you're in support of them... as what most see as a pretty important part of being in the US, they're free to give you the boot from their institution. If they who be booted perceive their bootening as something that is illegal, they're also free to sue. Whether or not that lawsuit is credible/goes anywhere is up to a judiciary.
  - skissane 6y ago
    According to Techcrunch [0]: > Torba had also tweeted a screenshot of another founder’s Facebook comment (the founder’s name was removed) that “being a black, Muslim or woman in the USA is going to be very scary” with his own comment: “Build the wall.” Then, in another thread, a YC alum alluded to Torba’s behavior without mentioning him by name, prompting him to jump in: “Say my name when you talk about me, coward. Build the wall.” He wasn't just publicly supporting Trump's border wall policy, he was doing it in an assholeish way, and directing that towards other YC founders. If he'd cut out the assholeish manner and the direction towards fellow founders, and just kept the publicly supporting Trump's policies part, I doubt YC would have responded in the same manner. That's consistent with Kat Manalac's email quoted in the same article – he was banned for behaving in a hostile way, not purely for his political beliefs. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...
  - ben_w 6y ago
    Replying to both your nearly invisible comments: On the one hand, yes, selling things to people is the point. On the other hand, one does not need to be an ass to one group just to get trade from another. Tim Cook was part of the big tech group that used to meet with Trump, yet managed to maintain corporate policies that are (from my non American POV) stereotypical of the American left.
- totalZero 6y ago
  He got expelled from YC for saying we should build a border wall? Really?
  - gkoberger 6y ago
    I edited my comment. The full quotes are much worse. Here's the details: https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...
    - totalZero 6y ago
      Thanks, and wow... he sounds like a perpetual drain on the energy and sanity of all of the people around him.
      - dillondoyle 6y ago
        The stuff he is tweeting from the official Gab twitter is truly hellishly insane ! "As per my policy of not communicating with non-Christian and/or communist journos, I will not be replying to this non-story. " https://twitter.com/getongab/status/1366954798524887042 https://twitter.com/getongab/status/1366954798524887042
        zz_throwaway_zz 6y ago
        He's right though..
        gkoberger 6y ago
        Just for context, the situation being referenced here is that Gab claims Donald Trump is verified on the platform but the address associated with the account is really the CEO's email (Kuhcoon was his YC company).
        refurb 6y ago
        Maybe I'm missing some context, but what about that Tweet was disgusting versus just trashy or in poor taste? Compared to some of the crap on Twitter it's pretty tame.
- antupis 6y ago
  It is like modern day version of Hitler did not getting in art school.
  - ALittleLight 6y ago
    Except he did get into YC and he's not a genocidal dictator so much as an angry and inappropriate person online.
    - atoav 6y ago
      As both an former art student and Austrian living in Germany I don't think it is forbidden to think about how Hitler became Hitler. Because for some time of his life Hitler was just some angry guy until he turned to a fully fledged genozidal fascist dictator. Hitlers antisemitism was partly created by his rejection in the viennese academy and his hurt ego made him want to pay them back for the rest of his life. Why should forbid ourselves from talking about that psychological mechanism? Because Hitler is not seen as a human but a demon? Because accepting Hitler as a human would mean this could happen again, with us in the role of the baddies? When your main reaction to personal rejection is to search for a scapegoat, because you can't handle it otherwise you are going down a similar path. Surely most will calm down on the way, surely most will not do so in a political and historical environment that allows them to become violent or even genocidal, but why not talk about it?
      - ALittleLight 6y ago
        There are many, many, more people who blamed scapegoats or were angry than became Hitler or Hitler-like figures. Likening Torba to Hitler because both of them are angry is an extreme and unproductive association. I think it's enough to say "You should treat people with respect" or "You shouldn't say that Mr. Torba", or even "Andrew Torba is a racist/transphobe/etc" without having to liken him to Hitler. Hitler didn't switch from angry guy to legitimate problem overnight. He did things like forming a political party replete with armed forces and attempting a coup. I don't think building a mostly-failed Twitter clone is comparable.
- minimaxir 6y ago
  HN thread from 2016 on Torba getting booted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12934388 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12934388 Includes comments from Sam Altman and Torba, posting as rvcamo
  - hluska 6y ago
    That's an interesting thread as Fosco got involved too. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12935057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12935057
    - minimaxir 6y ago
      Note that Fosco was not Gab’s CTO until recently, which makes his appearance in that thread a funny coincidence.
      - hluska 6y ago
        I found it quite fascinating how similar their ideas were in that thread but I'm interested in how people are converted into extremist movements.
  - shinsheel 6y ago
    I really hate how Sam didn't respond on the first objection about double standards when other founders openly sexually harassed women on the streets and got nothing for that. Like...what, commentator just made it all up and nobody noticed? Or it actually happened and Sam doesn't have even the minimal plausible excuse?
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      On a surface read, the author of the second objection may have not realized that prank videos are made with actors, not unsuspecting strangers.
  - weeblewobble 6y ago
    This thread is really eye-opening about how stagnant the discourse around free speech/wokeness/political correctness has been. Four years later and the conversation would be exactly the same today.
- tibbydudeza 6y ago
  He really drunk the kool-aid becoming part of the cult. It is not everyday you see the CEO of a company saying "Gab Does Not Negotiate With Criminal Demons".
  - smaryjerry 6y ago
    It is a strange use of language so it would be interesting to see what he defines a demon as. If he has said “Gab does not negotiate with evil people” no one would have cared but saying demon criminals brings forth images of horned beings we all see in fantasy movies, perhaps that’s the imagery he was going for.
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  Someone got freaked out because he said "build the wall"? Oh come on, I think its a magnanimous monument to stupidity but surely someone wouldn't actually be -afraid- after hearing that. Anger, resentment, disgust I understand. However being afraid of these people is ridiculous. Thanks for the article! Edit: read the article. YC threw him out because he was harassing people, not because he was conservative or threatened anyone. Obviously you have to be respectful and tolerant in a group like YC regardless of your political leanings. I see why he got the boot, his comments were hot garbage.
steve_adams_86 6y ago
Perhaps ironically his comments strike me as those of someone mentally ill. They make me feel sorry for him.
- walrus01 6y ago
  It's a severe disservice to non-bigoted, non-toxic people who struggle with a myriad of mental health issues to reduce a description of that specific person to "he must be mentally ill". Though undoubtedly it's entirely possible to be a cancerous individual and also have mental health issues simultaneously.
  - kkielhofner 6y ago
    One of the wisest things I ever heard from a mental health professional: "There's a normal range of asshole, beyond that, it's mental illness" There is an entire range of diagnosable mental illnesses, below that there are entire clusters of personality disorders that don't quite raise to the diagnosis of the others. When it comes to personality disorders, especially, the current consensus of the psychiatric community (for better or worse) is that they're made and formed in childhood. Essentially, many of these people are acting out things that were done to them; quite possibly through no fault of their own in their early development. Of course the results of their unacceptable behavior is what it is but there is some credence to the theory that these people are suffering in their own right. We're miserable just digesting their thoughts one tweet at a time. Meanwhile they walk around with that all day everyday.
    - fastball 6y ago
      Also worth pointing out that the diagnoses are just things we made up.
      - steve_adams_86 6y ago
        You’re getting downvoted but I think this actually is worth considering. It doesn’t devalue diagnoses. These categories and labels are to some degree arbitrary, and the underlying conditions are often very elastic and amorphous. The categories and labels are very helpful in some ways, but it’s unhelpful to rely on them exclusively to inform yourself if someone is having mental issues or not. I’m not sure if this is what you were touching on or not.
bgravinz 6y ago
What part do you find disgusting?
- zz_throwaway_zz 6y ago
  Presumably the demonic trannies part. Unfortunately he's not wrong...
  - hluska 6y ago
    Are you completely tone deaf, of below average intelligence or are you really this much of a bigot?
    - throwoutttt 6y ago
      Are you really in that much of a bubble reality
      - hluska 6y ago
        What? A bubble reality where we're all worthy of love, respect and the right to be our most authentic selves? If that's how you define a bubble reality, yes I am. Thank you!
      - dang 6y ago
        Would you please stop creating accounts to break HN's guidelines with? Obviously we have to ban such accounts. Continuing down this path will get your ban account banned as well, so please don't. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
- akhilcacharya 6y ago
  This part, linked here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26339446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26339446
walrus01 6y ago
Make shunning of bigots great again.
vixen99 6y ago
We know you're shocked but might you not have provided at least one comment (the worst, say) as a an example? On a scale of human actions from 1 to 10, how disgusting?

Yeah, he's the worst. I knew him in YC, and actually liked him. But I watched him spiral as he wasn't able to raise money for his startup, including starting to go to Trump rallies "out of curiosity". His FB posts began to include worse and worse rhetoric. It was crazy to watch him get radicalized in realtime. It ended in him harassing some (minority) YC founders who said they were scared by saying we should "Build the wall". (Edit: His comments were worse than I let on; here's the full context https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...)

konjin 6y ago
I'm a minority, and I feel really fucking stupid that I have to say that so I don't get banned, but how on earth can anyone get expelled for saying they support the policy of the US government? That is insular to the point of caricature for out of touch democrat staffing aids, not people trying to make money.
- gkoberger 6y ago
  Sorry, that's my fault, I'm going to edit my comment. I downplayed what he said. Here's the full comments: https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...
  - konjin 6y ago
    Ok, I can see why you'd get expelled over that.
- kyrra 6y ago
  .
  - konjin 6y ago
    That isn't anger, it's genuine incredulity.
- akhilcacharya 6y ago
  As someone that is also a minority, I'm both aware and heartbroken that it became a very popular form of bullying towards children after 2015 [0]. Racist bullying isn't new of course, but this particular phrase is fairly new. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/local/school-bullying-trump-words/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/local/school-bu...
- calciphus 6y ago
  Private groups don't have to swear fealty to the government. Individuals are allowed and encouraged to dissent, form groups of dissention, and don't owe it to anyone to grant them access to that group. Regardless of one's personal politics, insisting "if the government says it's ok, you shouldn't be allowed to reject someone who supports it" isn't really in line with the core ideals of the US, where YC is organized.
  - konjin 6y ago
    Alienating 50% of customers, and lets be honest these are the stupider customers you can more easily monetize, is not a good move for anyone trying to make money, which is the point of a startup. A well thought out Gab that was politically neutral will be able to steal the most engaged facebook users and then then sell them gold, guns and bibles, or whatever else those folks enjoy in their spare time. This isn't an issue of morals, it's an issue of money.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- 8note 6y ago
  Not everyone agrees with the policies of the US government, including private businessess
- s5300 6y ago
  Getting into the realm of Reddit tier comments in replying to this... But in a genuine attempt to clear you up - The people who made Nazi Germany a thing were "just citizens of Germany supporting the policy of the German government." Institutions, such as YC, typically tend to have a set of morals/guidelines that they follow (and usually clearly state) If it so happens that a policy of the US government goes against said morals/guidelines and you're in support of them... as what most see as a pretty important part of being in the US, they're free to give you the boot from their institution. If they who be booted perceive their bootening as something that is illegal, they're also free to sue. Whether or not that lawsuit is credible/goes anywhere is up to a judiciary.
- skissane 6y ago
  According to Techcrunch [0]: > Torba had also tweeted a screenshot of another founder’s Facebook comment (the founder’s name was removed) that “being a black, Muslim or woman in the USA is going to be very scary” with his own comment: “Build the wall.” Then, in another thread, a YC alum alluded to Torba’s behavior without mentioning him by name, prompting him to jump in: “Say my name when you talk about me, coward. Build the wall.” He wasn't just publicly supporting Trump's border wall policy, he was doing it in an assholeish way, and directing that towards other YC founders. If he'd cut out the assholeish manner and the direction towards fellow founders, and just kept the publicly supporting Trump's policies part, I doubt YC would have responded in the same manner. That's consistent with Kat Manalac's email quoted in the same article – he was banned for behaving in a hostile way, not purely for his political beliefs. [0] https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...
- ben_w 6y ago
  Replying to both your nearly invisible comments: On the one hand, yes, selling things to people is the point. On the other hand, one does not need to be an ass to one group just to get trade from another. Tim Cook was part of the big tech group that used to meet with Trump, yet managed to maintain corporate policies that are (from my non American POV) stereotypical of the American left.
totalZero 6y ago
He got expelled from YC for saying we should build a border wall? Really?
- gkoberger 6y ago
  I edited my comment. The full quotes are much worse. Here's the details: https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-from-y-combinator/ https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/12/pro-trump-ceo-gets-booted-...
  - totalZero 6y ago
    Thanks, and wow... he sounds like a perpetual drain on the energy and sanity of all of the people around him.
    - dillondoyle 6y ago
      The stuff he is tweeting from the official Gab twitter is truly hellishly insane ! "As per my policy of not communicating with non-Christian and/or communist journos, I will not be replying to this non-story. " https://twitter.com/getongab/status/1366954798524887042 https://twitter.com/getongab/status/1366954798524887042
      - zz_throwaway_zz 6y ago
        He's right though..
      - gkoberger 6y ago
        Just for context, the situation being referenced here is that Gab claims Donald Trump is verified on the platform but the address associated with the account is really the CEO's email (Kuhcoon was his YC company).
      - refurb 6y ago
        Maybe I'm missing some context, but what about that Tweet was disgusting versus just trashy or in poor taste? Compared to some of the crap on Twitter it's pretty tame.
antupis 6y ago
It is like modern day version of Hitler did not getting in art school.
- ALittleLight 6y ago
  Except he did get into YC and he's not a genocidal dictator so much as an angry and inappropriate person online.
  - atoav 6y ago
    As both an former art student and Austrian living in Germany I don't think it is forbidden to think about how Hitler became Hitler. Because for some time of his life Hitler was just some angry guy until he turned to a fully fledged genozidal fascist dictator. Hitlers antisemitism was partly created by his rejection in the viennese academy and his hurt ego made him want to pay them back for the rest of his life. Why should forbid ourselves from talking about that psychological mechanism? Because Hitler is not seen as a human but a demon? Because accepting Hitler as a human would mean this could happen again, with us in the role of the baddies? When your main reaction to personal rejection is to search for a scapegoat, because you can't handle it otherwise you are going down a similar path. Surely most will calm down on the way, surely most will not do so in a political and historical environment that allows them to become violent or even genocidal, but why not talk about it?
    - ALittleLight 6y ago
      There are many, many, more people who blamed scapegoats or were angry than became Hitler or Hitler-like figures. Likening Torba to Hitler because both of them are angry is an extreme and unproductive association. I think it's enough to say "You should treat people with respect" or "You shouldn't say that Mr. Torba", or even "Andrew Torba is a racist/transphobe/etc" without having to liken him to Hitler. Hitler didn't switch from angry guy to legitimate problem overnight. He did things like forming a political party replete with armed forces and attempting a coup. I don't think building a mostly-failed Twitter clone is comparable.
minimaxir 6y ago
HN thread from 2016 on Torba getting booted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12934388 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12934388 Includes comments from Sam Altman and Torba, posting as rvcamo
- hluska 6y ago
  That's an interesting thread as Fosco got involved too. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12935057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12935057
  - minimaxir 6y ago
    Note that Fosco was not Gab’s CTO until recently, which makes his appearance in that thread a funny coincidence.
    - hluska 6y ago
      I found it quite fascinating how similar their ideas were in that thread but I'm interested in how people are converted into extremist movements.
- shinsheel 6y ago
  I really hate how Sam didn't respond on the first objection about double standards when other founders openly sexually harassed women on the streets and got nothing for that. Like...what, commentator just made it all up and nobody noticed? Or it actually happened and Sam doesn't have even the minimal plausible excuse?
  - TeMPOraL 6y ago
    On a surface read, the author of the second objection may have not realized that prank videos are made with actors, not unsuspecting strangers.
- weeblewobble 6y ago
  This thread is really eye-opening about how stagnant the discourse around free speech/wokeness/political correctness has been. Four years later and the conversation would be exactly the same today.
tibbydudeza 6y ago
He really drunk the kool-aid becoming part of the cult. It is not everyday you see the CEO of a company saying "Gab Does Not Negotiate With Criminal Demons".
- smaryjerry 6y ago
  It is a strange use of language so it would be interesting to see what he defines a demon as. If he has said “Gab does not negotiate with evil people” no one would have cared but saying demon criminals brings forth images of horned beings we all see in fantasy movies, perhaps that’s the imagery he was going for.
stjohnswarts 6y ago
Someone got freaked out because he said "build the wall"? Oh come on, I think its a magnanimous monument to stupidity but surely someone wouldn't actually be -afraid- after hearing that. Anger, resentment, disgust I understand. However being afraid of these people is ridiculous. Thanks for the article! Edit: read the article. YC threw him out because he was harassing people, not because he was conservative or threatened anyone. Obviously you have to be respectful and tolerant in a group like YC regardless of your political leanings. I see why he got the boot, his comments were hot garbage.

steve_adams_86 6y ago

Perhaps ironically his comments strike me as those of someone mentally ill. They make me feel sorry for him.

walrus01 6y ago
It's a severe disservice to non-bigoted, non-toxic people who struggle with a myriad of mental health issues to reduce a description of that specific person to "he must be mentally ill". Though undoubtedly it's entirely possible to be a cancerous individual and also have mental health issues simultaneously.
- kkielhofner 6y ago
  One of the wisest things I ever heard from a mental health professional: "There's a normal range of asshole, beyond that, it's mental illness" There is an entire range of diagnosable mental illnesses, below that there are entire clusters of personality disorders that don't quite raise to the diagnosis of the others. When it comes to personality disorders, especially, the current consensus of the psychiatric community (for better or worse) is that they're made and formed in childhood. Essentially, many of these people are acting out things that were done to them; quite possibly through no fault of their own in their early development. Of course the results of their unacceptable behavior is what it is but there is some credence to the theory that these people are suffering in their own right. We're miserable just digesting their thoughts one tweet at a time. Meanwhile they walk around with that all day everyday.
  - fastball 6y ago
    Also worth pointing out that the diagnoses are just things we made up.
    - steve_adams_86 6y ago
      You’re getting downvoted but I think this actually is worth considering. It doesn’t devalue diagnoses. These categories and labels are to some degree arbitrary, and the underlying conditions are often very elastic and amorphous. The categories and labels are very helpful in some ways, but it’s unhelpful to rely on them exclusively to inform yourself if someone is having mental issues or not. I’m not sure if this is what you were touching on or not.

bgravinz 6y ago

What part do you find disgusting?

zz_throwaway_zz 6y ago
Presumably the demonic trannies part. Unfortunately he's not wrong...
- hluska 6y ago
  Are you completely tone deaf, of below average intelligence or are you really this much of a bigot?
  - throwoutttt 6y ago
    Are you really in that much of a bubble reality
    - hluska 6y ago
      What? A bubble reality where we're all worthy of love, respect and the right to be our most authentic selves? If that's how you define a bubble reality, yes I am. Thank you!
    - dang 6y ago
      Would you please stop creating accounts to break HN's guidelines with? Obviously we have to ban such accounts. Continuing down this path will get your ban account banned as well, so please don't. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
akhilcacharya 6y ago
This part, linked here - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26339446 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26339446

walrus01 6y ago

Make shunning of bigots great again.

vixen99 6y ago

We know you're shocked but might you not have provided at least one comment (the worst, say) as a an example? On a scale of human actions from 1 to 10, how disgusting?