10 ms·

A Tale of Two Slings: Peak Design and Amazon Basics [video]

174 points by LordAtlas 6y ago

agustif 6y ago
I had one Peak Design strap replacement for my handheld camera which plastic anti-slip parts melted away with time making quite a mess and rendering it unusable. I wonder if it was a knock-off but I think they were official sellers in amazon back then... Funny to see them trash on clones when their products seem pretty much the same china factory quality plastic made shit that fades away with time,just with nice marketing/branding on top just MHO And I have 0 simpaties for amazon too... Not defending them
amiheines 6y ago
A youtube link? Why? I was surprised of the sound and volume. Didn't even look at the website before clicking. Quickly hit the back button, I like reading text, not being talked to by a voice post
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- TheChaplain 6y ago
  Because it get the message across. Within the first 15s one can see that Amazon do have some questions to answer.
- eesmith 6y ago
  As someone who also enjoys reading text, I tend to read the domain name before following a link, if only because some web site, like the NYT, aren't worth clicking on due to my lack of a subscription. In any case, there have already been three links to text articles on the topic: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=false&query=peak%20design&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=fal... https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=youtube.com https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=youtube.com shows about 24 YouTube links in the last 24 hours, so it's not like links to YT are incredibly rare.
- zeta0134 6y ago
  I feel similarly, and the text links in a sister reply were helpful. This kind of story only really needs the two images of the bags side by side to make its point. Regarding videos, within Firefox I simply have autoplay turned off entirely, using the following setting: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/block-autoplay https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/block-autoplay Youtube still works fine with this setting flipped, with one difference: on the first pageload, I must explicitly click play before a video starts. This is my strong preference anyway, so I don't mind one bit.
steve_adams_86 6y ago
PD can poke fun at this because their customers probably wouldn’t even check Amazon for the products they’re looking for in the first place. At least, I suspect they tend to sell to people who specifically don’t want the kind of garbage you tend to find on Amazon these days. As a result it’s more or less a great opportunity to show off what makes them stand out. The contrast between the two products is crazy. Thousands will buy the Basics version and never hear of PD in their lives though and that’s fine. They were never going to be PD customers. For many people that might be alright, too. They might not care to have a better sling. It might mean nothing at all to them. Like... People who can’t tell the difference between Miracle Whip and fresh mayonnaise. I have their 30L everyday backpack and some pouches (tech and wash) and they really are spectacular. If I lost any of them I’d be ordering replacements the same day. The attention to details and overall quality make their gear literally “buy it for life” category products. I hope I’m right and that this kind of shit Amazon Basics pulls doesn’t hurt PD’s bottom line.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- BadassFractal 6y ago
  I own that very sling and the attention to detail is exceptional. It's hard to put down. Their clip system is rather convenient as well, including its interoperability with the Manfrotto tripods. They're expensive products, but you'll keep them for a long time.
- totalZero 6y ago
  > Thousands will buy the Basics version and never hear of PD in their lives though and that’s fine. They were never going to be PD customers. Even if it were true that no overlap could have occurred between the cohorts and the pricing/existence of the AB product has no externalities upon the PD product, it's not "fine." It’s a total ripoff by a company that's supposed to be their partner.
  - threeseed 6y ago
    > It’s a total ripoff by a company that's supposed to be their partner. But Amazon is not their partner. They are a reseller and like resellers have done since the beginning of time they will take the opportunity to cut you out if your product is successful and it's profitable for them to do so.
tqi 6y ago
This is an interesting pairing with the "Piracy is not theft"[1] post that is also currently on the front page. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26329144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26329144
- aidenn0 6y ago
  Seeing as the title has the word "copying" not "stealing" and at the time of this writing, the top comment is basically saying that Peak Design loses nothing from this[1], at least HN is consistent. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26339201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26339201
- villgax 6y ago
  It would apply only if pirates were actually selling said content, which in this case Amazon Basics does in fact do.
- jokowueu 6y ago
  The difference here is that they are selling it . Amazon isn't giving it away for free they are profiting from it
  - darawk 6y ago
    People hosting pirated material often pair it with ads.
    - sodality2 6y ago
      And pirates use bulletproof hosting in other countries to avert takedowns. Amazon is in the US, where they are beholden to US laws.
      - darawk 6y ago
        Your argument is that by evading jurisdiction, an act transforms from 'theft' to 'not theft'?
dkjaudyeqooe 6y ago
Did they trademark the name? If not they've got themselves to blame.
- bobby_bob 6y ago
  Looks like they applied on 30 Jan this year.[1] Currently: "Awaiting Examination". it appears that Amazon released the copy in November last year.[2] [1] - https://uspto.report/TM/90489397 https://uspto.report/TM/90489397 [2] - https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B084CG43XD https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B084CG43XD
  - atian 6y ago
    Trademark registrations are a formality in the US, but saves everyone a lot of time and money. In the US, it goes to whoever uses it first in commercial capacity. They will have to dispute it in court because they were using "Everyday Sling" in practice way before Amazon was. The better argument for Amazon is that "Everyday Sling" is too generic of language similar to "Daypacks," and even Peak Design may have thought so because they did not bother to register it for years [0], [1]. [0]: https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/31/16573654/peak-design-5l-everyday-sling-camera-bag-review https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/31/16573654/peak-design-5l-... [1]: https://www.adorama.com/pdbsl5as1.html https://www.adorama.com/pdbsl5as1.html
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      > The better argument for Amazon is that "Everyday Sling" is too generic of language similar to "Daypacks," I don't really agree with that, because the "everyday sling" is not a sling, it's a container. It would appear to be a fanny pack supported by your shoulder instead of your waist. A sling is a piece of cloth which supports something against gravity; the major applications are holding an injured arm and holding a baby. See https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sling https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sling ; the ordinary sense is noun 2(a), and there is no sense that includes a container.
throwawaysea 6y ago
Despicable action by a company that is too big to not be facing anti trust enforcement.
villgax 6y ago
So basically scope out good products & pirate them right Amazon? Someone should make create names for new products whose first letters eventually arrange themselves as Amazon Steals.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
perryizgr8 6y ago
It's a bag that you can wear on one shoulder. The design is going to be similar because of human anatomy. And if this company spent "years of research and development" on this simple bag, I'm sorry to say you wasted your time and money. It is a bag. With some pockets and zippers. It's not rocket science. That said I think it is pathetic that Amazon is resorting to such blatantly unethical practices against the very sellers who make the platform work. It's a stupid move on Amazon's part long-term.
- aikinai 6y ago
  Do an image search for something like "shoulder camera bag" (to put them at least in the same ballpark) and see how many look like the Everyday Sling. I scrolled down the first few pages and there was nothing even close. Now look at the Amazon Basics version. They even copied the leather brand tag on the side and just replaced the name.
chx 6y ago
The lack of strategic thinking here is staggering. These sort of shenanigans violate antitrust laws https://twitter.com/stacyfmitchell/status/1253408398416072705 https://twitter.com/stacyfmitchell/status/125340839841607270... and these days more and more AGs at different levels look at FAANG (minus Netflix) with antitrust in their mind. It's just not worth fueling the fire.
- ipsum2 6y ago
  Exactly which antitrust law does it violate? I read through the Twitter thread linked, it doesn't say.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - nl 6y ago
    It's HN. Everything is "antitrust" if it involves a slightly large company, even when it isn't. Realistically actions like this can cost some political support, and in aggregate that can make a difference. But Amazon broke no laws here.
    - chx 6y ago
      ... Your dismissive comment shows you know nothing about these matters and while my comment was a quick one as I presumed everyone is aware of these facts, let me show you a few more qualified bodies/persons who believe Amazon might have violated antitrust laws. 1. The EU Competition Commissioner is already investigating. https://www.wsj.com/articles/european-union-probing-amazon-s-treatment-of-merchants-using-its-platform-1537367673?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/european-union-probing-amazon-s... 2. Predatory pricing has long been a concern with Amazon. This is prohibited under the Robinson‑Patman and Sherman Acts. Since Matsushita v. Zenith such cases have been few and far between but https://doi.org/10.1093/jaenfo/jnz006 https://doi.org/10.1093/jaenfo/jnz006 provides a roadmap on how this could be proven for Amazon. 3. The U.S. House Judiciary Committee antitrust subcommittee issued a report last year. https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/competition_in_digital_markets.pdf https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/competition_in_dig... has this "The companies investigated by the Subcommittee—Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google—have captured control over key channels of distribution and have come to function as gatekeepers. Just a decade into the future, 30% of the world’s gross economic output may lie with these firms, and just a handful of others. In interviews with Subcommittee staff, numerous businesses described how dominant platforms exploit their gatekeeper power to dictate terms and extract concessions that no one would reasonably consent to in a competitive market."
redis_mlc 6y ago
That's one sarcastic video. Love it! And check out the whiteboard wall sign. :)
neonihil 6y ago
I totally support PD in this crusade. I’ve supported a lot of their crowdfunded campaigns and own a lot of their stuff. All very well thought out products. I’m also very upset at people who are buying knockoff products. They are the reason why innovation companies are dying and copycat companies are thriving. Remember Digital for example? They were super innovative. Just one example: They introduced a 64bit CPU called Alpha in 1992! And also pioneered many portable technologies, like the first laptop with 1024x768 resolution and WindowsNT support in 1996 with hardware suspend/resume support. Close lid, computer sleeps, open, wakes up in less than 1 second. (This is years before XP introduced it’s shitty hibernate/sleep support.) HP and Compaq mainly just revere engineered Digital’s notebook line, and put it on the market for 20-30% cheaper with shitty drivers. And people choose them. It’s easy to put something on market cheap when somebody else paid for the innovation... Compaq ended up buying Digital in 1998. And then HP bought Compaq later. And we ended up with shitty notebooks. HP can no longer copy somebody. Well, it tries to copy Apple now, as everybody else. In this story a source of innovation has died because of cheap people, who were willing to buy cheap knockoff products. There are many more stories like this unfortunately. Only buy from source of innovation, to keep it coming.
- phreeza 6y ago
  There is a fine line though, comoditization can be a hugely benefitial thing for consumers, too. If nobody had ever ripped off the iphone, would the mobile web and app world still be a niche thing for premium users only?
- crakhamster01 6y ago
  I agree that Amazon's blatant copying of PD is upsetting, but I also resent the notion that consumers are to blame for this outcome. The solution is to change the rules so that we are optimizing towards the outcomes we want to achieve. Instead, we're banking on the unlikely outcome that lots of people with limited resources will all make the altruistic decision to support these nebulous ideas we care about.
leppr 6y ago
So Amazon isn't just handling counterfeit products anymore, they're now doing the counterfeiting themselves and putting their own branding on it? This is absolutely despicable, I hope this story gets the attention it deserves.
brmgb 6y ago
That's brilliant marketing from Peak Design and Amazon obviously copied their product features but contrary to what most commenters seem to think that is not in anyway a counterfeit. A counterfeit has to be made in exact imitation of something valuable with the intention to deceive. It's going to be hard to confuse the Amazon bag and the Peak Design one when they don't use the same zips and straps, they don't have the same color and the Amazon brand is obvious on the Amazon one. Both products have the same shape but that is not in anyway illegal.
- tantalor 6y ago
  It depends. Is Amazon, the marketplace, abusing its monopoly position to squeeze out competition? Then yes, it may be illegal (IANAL).
  - phreeza 6y ago
    How is peak design a competitor though here, and in which way is amazon a monopolist? Peak design sells their merchandise through several other channels, so amazon is probably not a monopolist for "selling camera bags online", and on the marketplace, peak design is more like a paying customer, not a competitor. Amazon would probably be within their rights removing Peak design completely.
- leppr 6y ago
  The branding is not just the literal logo. The typical visual elements peculiar to Peak Design are present in the Amazon Basics version. Compare the two products in their black version, I know if I had seen the Amazon version in the wild I would've instantly thought it was a Peak Design bag. Original: https://www.peakdesign.com/collections/everyday-bags/products/everyday-sling?variant=29742302068780 https://www.peakdesign.com/collections/everyday-bags/product... Amazon version: https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Everyday-Sling-Inches-Black/dp/B084CG43XD/ https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Everyday-Sling-Inches-Bl... (notice they forgot to remove the "Everyday" moniker from the url)
  - brmgb 6y ago
FeeJai 6y ago
It looks like Amazon reacted by at least renaming their product, I can't find Amazon Basics Everyday Sling anymore, but instead encounter the Amazon Basics Camera Bag when searching for "Everyday Sling"
novaleaf 6y ago
Amazon renamed the product, probably due to this. https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Everyday-Sling-Inches-Black/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Everyday-Sling-Inches-Bl... though the url still says "everyday sling" the product page does not.
- carmen_sandiego 6y ago
  The slug isn't parsed, you can put whatever you want or nothing at all in there: https://www.amazon.com/this-part-is-irrelevant/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/this-part-is-irrelevant/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/official-apple-sling/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/official-apple-sling/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084CG43XD So it's just an old link. The new name is presumably in new links generated by Amazon.
  - FeeJai 6y ago
    yes, but if you search for the amazon basics product on the front page of amazon it will like you with this slug
leroy_masochist 6y ago
The "Control-C + Control-V = $$$$" wall art made me laugh out loud. Well done.

174 points by LordAtlas 6y ago

I had one Peak Design strap replacement for my handheld camera which plastic anti-slip parts melted away with time making quite a mess and rendering it unusable. I wonder if it was a knock-off but I think they were official sellers in amazon back then... Funny to see them trash on clones when their products seem pretty much the same china factory quality plastic made shit that fades away with time,just with nice marketing/branding on top just MHO And I have 0 simpaties for amazon too... Not defending them

amiheines 6y ago

A youtube link? Why? I was surprised of the sound and volume. Didn't even look at the website before clicking. Quickly hit the back button, I like reading text, not being talked to by a voice post

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
TheChaplain 6y ago
Because it get the message across. Within the first 15s one can see that Amazon do have some questions to answer.
eesmith 6y ago
As someone who also enjoys reading text, I tend to read the domain name before following a link, if only because some web site, like the NYT, aren't worth clicking on due to my lack of a subscription. In any case, there have already been three links to text articles on the topic: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=false&query=peak%20design&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=fal... https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=youtube.com https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=youtube.com shows about 24 YouTube links in the last 24 hours, so it's not like links to YT are incredibly rare.
zeta0134 6y ago
I feel similarly, and the text links in a sister reply were helpful. This kind of story only really needs the two images of the bags side by side to make its point. Regarding videos, within Firefox I simply have autoplay turned off entirely, using the following setting: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/block-autoplay https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/block-autoplay Youtube still works fine with this setting flipped, with one difference: on the first pageload, I must explicitly click play before a video starts. This is my strong preference anyway, so I don't mind one bit.

steve_adams_86 6y ago

PD can poke fun at this because their customers probably wouldn’t even check Amazon for the products they’re looking for in the first place. At least, I suspect they tend to sell to people who specifically don’t want the kind of garbage you tend to find on Amazon these days. As a result it’s more or less a great opportunity to show off what makes them stand out. The contrast between the two products is crazy. Thousands will buy the Basics version and never hear of PD in their lives though and that’s fine. They were never going to be PD customers. For many people that might be alright, too. They might not care to have a better sling. It might mean nothing at all to them. Like... People who can’t tell the difference between Miracle Whip and fresh mayonnaise. I have their 30L everyday backpack and some pouches (tech and wash) and they really are spectacular. If I lost any of them I’d be ordering replacements the same day. The attention to details and overall quality make their gear literally “buy it for life” category products. I hope I’m right and that this kind of shit Amazon Basics pulls doesn’t hurt PD’s bottom line.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
BadassFractal 6y ago
I own that very sling and the attention to detail is exceptional. It's hard to put down. Their clip system is rather convenient as well, including its interoperability with the Manfrotto tripods. They're expensive products, but you'll keep them for a long time.
totalZero 6y ago
> Thousands will buy the Basics version and never hear of PD in their lives though and that’s fine. They were never going to be PD customers. Even if it were true that no overlap could have occurred between the cohorts and the pricing/existence of the AB product has no externalities upon the PD product, it's not "fine." It’s a total ripoff by a company that's supposed to be their partner.
- threeseed 6y ago
  > It’s a total ripoff by a company that's supposed to be their partner. But Amazon is not their partner. They are a reseller and like resellers have done since the beginning of time they will take the opportunity to cut you out if your product is successful and it's profitable for them to do so.

tqi 6y ago

This is an interesting pairing with the "Piracy is not theft"[1] post that is also currently on the front page. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26329144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26329144

aidenn0 6y ago
Seeing as the title has the word "copying" not "stealing" and at the time of this writing, the top comment is basically saying that Peak Design loses nothing from this[1], at least HN is consistent. 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26339201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26339201
villgax 6y ago
It would apply only if pirates were actually selling said content, which in this case Amazon Basics does in fact do.
jokowueu 6y ago
The difference here is that they are selling it . Amazon isn't giving it away for free they are profiting from it
- darawk 6y ago
  People hosting pirated material often pair it with ads.
  - sodality2 6y ago
    And pirates use bulletproof hosting in other countries to avert takedowns. Amazon is in the US, where they are beholden to US laws.
    - darawk 6y ago
      Your argument is that by evading jurisdiction, an act transforms from 'theft' to 'not theft'?

dkjaudyeqooe 6y ago

Did they trademark the name? If not they've got themselves to blame.

bobby_bob 6y ago
Looks like they applied on 30 Jan this year.[1] Currently: "Awaiting Examination". it appears that Amazon released the copy in November last year.[2] [1] - https://uspto.report/TM/90489397 https://uspto.report/TM/90489397 [2] - https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B084CG43XD https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B084CG43XD
- atian 6y ago
  Trademark registrations are a formality in the US, but saves everyone a lot of time and money. In the US, it goes to whoever uses it first in commercial capacity. They will have to dispute it in court because they were using "Everyday Sling" in practice way before Amazon was. The better argument for Amazon is that "Everyday Sling" is too generic of language similar to "Daypacks," and even Peak Design may have thought so because they did not bother to register it for years [0], [1]. [0]: https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/31/16573654/peak-design-5l-everyday-sling-camera-bag-review https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/31/16573654/peak-design-5l-... [1]: https://www.adorama.com/pdbsl5as1.html https://www.adorama.com/pdbsl5as1.html
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    > The better argument for Amazon is that "Everyday Sling" is too generic of language similar to "Daypacks," I don't really agree with that, because the "everyday sling" is not a sling, it's a container. It would appear to be a fanny pack supported by your shoulder instead of your waist. A sling is a piece of cloth which supports something against gravity; the major applications are holding an injured arm and holding a baby. See https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sling https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sling ; the ordinary sense is noun 2(a), and there is no sense that includes a container.

throwawaysea 6y ago

Despicable action by a company that is too big to not be facing anti trust enforcement.

villgax 6y ago

So basically scope out good products & pirate them right Amazon? Someone should make create names for new products whose first letters eventually arrange themselves as Amazon Steals.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

perryizgr8 6y ago

It's a bag that you can wear on one shoulder. The design is going to be similar because of human anatomy. And if this company spent "years of research and development" on this simple bag, I'm sorry to say you wasted your time and money. It is a bag. With some pockets and zippers. It's not rocket science. That said I think it is pathetic that Amazon is resorting to such blatantly unethical practices against the very sellers who make the platform work. It's a stupid move on Amazon's part long-term.

aikinai 6y ago
Do an image search for something like "shoulder camera bag" (to put them at least in the same ballpark) and see how many look like the Everyday Sling. I scrolled down the first few pages and there was nothing even close. Now look at the Amazon Basics version. They even copied the leather brand tag on the side and just replaced the name.

chx 6y ago

The lack of strategic thinking here is staggering. These sort of shenanigans violate antitrust laws https://twitter.com/stacyfmitchell/status/1253408398416072705 https://twitter.com/stacyfmitchell/status/125340839841607270... and these days more and more AGs at different levels look at FAANG (minus Netflix) with antitrust in their mind. It's just not worth fueling the fire.

ipsum2 6y ago
Exactly which antitrust law does it violate? I read through the Twitter thread linked, it doesn't say.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- nl 6y ago
  It's HN. Everything is "antitrust" if it involves a slightly large company, even when it isn't. Realistically actions like this can cost some political support, and in aggregate that can make a difference. But Amazon broke no laws here.
  - chx 6y ago
    ... Your dismissive comment shows you know nothing about these matters and while my comment was a quick one as I presumed everyone is aware of these facts, let me show you a few more qualified bodies/persons who believe Amazon might have violated antitrust laws. 1. The EU Competition Commissioner is already investigating. https://www.wsj.com/articles/european-union-probing-amazon-s-treatment-of-merchants-using-its-platform-1537367673?mod=article_inline https://www.wsj.com/articles/european-union-probing-amazon-s... 2. Predatory pricing has long been a concern with Amazon. This is prohibited under the Robinson‑Patman and Sherman Acts. Since Matsushita v. Zenith such cases have been few and far between but https://doi.org/10.1093/jaenfo/jnz006 https://doi.org/10.1093/jaenfo/jnz006 provides a roadmap on how this could be proven for Amazon. 3. The U.S. House Judiciary Committee antitrust subcommittee issued a report last year. https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/competition_in_digital_markets.pdf https://judiciary.house.gov/uploadedfiles/competition_in_dig... has this "The companies investigated by the Subcommittee—Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and Google—have captured control over key channels of distribution and have come to function as gatekeepers. Just a decade into the future, 30% of the world’s gross economic output may lie with these firms, and just a handful of others. In interviews with Subcommittee staff, numerous businesses described how dominant platforms exploit their gatekeeper power to dictate terms and extract concessions that no one would reasonably consent to in a competitive market."

redis_mlc 6y ago

That's one sarcastic video. Love it! And check out the whiteboard wall sign. :)

neonihil 6y ago

I totally support PD in this crusade. I’ve supported a lot of their crowdfunded campaigns and own a lot of their stuff. All very well thought out products. I’m also very upset at people who are buying knockoff products. They are the reason why innovation companies are dying and copycat companies are thriving. Remember Digital for example? They were super innovative. Just one example: They introduced a 64bit CPU called Alpha in 1992! And also pioneered many portable technologies, like the first laptop with 1024x768 resolution and WindowsNT support in 1996 with hardware suspend/resume support. Close lid, computer sleeps, open, wakes up in less than 1 second. (This is years before XP introduced it’s shitty hibernate/sleep support.) HP and Compaq mainly just revere engineered Digital’s notebook line, and put it on the market for 20-30% cheaper with shitty drivers. And people choose them. It’s easy to put something on market cheap when somebody else paid for the innovation... Compaq ended up buying Digital in 1998. And then HP bought Compaq later. And we ended up with shitty notebooks. HP can no longer copy somebody. Well, it tries to copy Apple now, as everybody else. In this story a source of innovation has died because of cheap people, who were willing to buy cheap knockoff products. There are many more stories like this unfortunately. Only buy from source of innovation, to keep it coming.

phreeza 6y ago
There is a fine line though, comoditization can be a hugely benefitial thing for consumers, too. If nobody had ever ripped off the iphone, would the mobile web and app world still be a niche thing for premium users only?
crakhamster01 6y ago
I agree that Amazon's blatant copying of PD is upsetting, but I also resent the notion that consumers are to blame for this outcome. The solution is to change the rules so that we are optimizing towards the outcomes we want to achieve. Instead, we're banking on the unlikely outcome that lots of people with limited resources will all make the altruistic decision to support these nebulous ideas we care about.

leppr 6y ago

So Amazon isn't just handling counterfeit products anymore, they're now doing the counterfeiting themselves and putting their own branding on it? This is absolutely despicable, I hope this story gets the attention it deserves.

brmgb 6y ago

That's brilliant marketing from Peak Design and Amazon obviously copied their product features but contrary to what most commenters seem to think that is not in anyway a counterfeit. A counterfeit has to be made in exact imitation of something valuable with the intention to deceive. It's going to be hard to confuse the Amazon bag and the Peak Design one when they don't use the same zips and straps, they don't have the same color and the Amazon brand is obvious on the Amazon one. Both products have the same shape but that is not in anyway illegal.

tantalor 6y ago
It depends. Is Amazon, the marketplace, abusing its monopoly position to squeeze out competition? Then yes, it may be illegal (IANAL).
- phreeza 6y ago
  How is peak design a competitor though here, and in which way is amazon a monopolist? Peak design sells their merchandise through several other channels, so amazon is probably not a monopolist for "selling camera bags online", and on the marketplace, peak design is more like a paying customer, not a competitor. Amazon would probably be within their rights removing Peak design completely.
leppr 6y ago
The branding is not just the literal logo. The typical visual elements peculiar to Peak Design are present in the Amazon Basics version. Compare the two products in their black version, I know if I had seen the Amazon version in the wild I would've instantly thought it was a Peak Design bag. Original: https://www.peakdesign.com/collections/everyday-bags/products/everyday-sling?variant=29742302068780 https://www.peakdesign.com/collections/everyday-bags/product... Amazon version: https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Everyday-Sling-Inches-Black/dp/B084CG43XD/ https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Everyday-Sling-Inches-Bl... (notice they forgot to remove the "Everyday" moniker from the url)
- brmgb 6y ago

FeeJai 6y ago

It looks like Amazon reacted by at least renaming their product, I can't find Amazon Basics Everyday Sling anymore, but instead encounter the Amazon Basics Camera Bag when searching for "Everyday Sling"

novaleaf 6y ago

Amazon renamed the product, probably due to this. https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Everyday-Sling-Inches-Black/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Everyday-Sling-Inches-Bl... though the url still says "everyday sling" the product page does not.

carmen_sandiego 6y ago
The slug isn't parsed, you can put whatever you want or nothing at all in there: https://www.amazon.com/this-part-is-irrelevant/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/this-part-is-irrelevant/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/official-apple-sling/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/official-apple-sling/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084CG43XD https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084CG43XD So it's just an old link. The new name is presumably in new links generated by Amazon.
- FeeJai 6y ago
  yes, but if you search for the amazon basics product on the front page of amazon it will like you with this slug

leroy_masochist 6y ago

The "Control-C + Control-V = $$$$" wall art made me laugh out loud. Well done.