4 ms·

I remember when I was like 3 or 4 years old the themes of the pictures I drew were markedly different from the pictures girls drew. I drew pictures of warriors,

I remember when I was like 3 or 4 years old the themes of the pictures I drew were markedly different from the pictures girls drew. I drew pictures of warriors, ninjas, dinosaurs, jet planes, guns, swords, explosions and weaponry. I noticed the girls always drew pictures of houses and family and I thought that was the stupidest thing ever. So yeah it's definitely the genre, and dare I say definitely in part biological in origin.

lazyasciiart 6y ago
If this is something you find interesting or where your opinion might matter to other people, I encourage you to look into the enormous amount of research that has been done on differences between men and women in our current society and what might cause those differences. If you don't feel like doing that, a good alternative is that you should not be definite about any of it.
- neonological 6y ago
  >If you don't feel like doing that, a good alternative is that you should not be definite about any of it. I can be definite about anything I want. Additionally, how do you know I haven't already looked at the enormous amount of research? Either way, the research supports my views in a pretty definitive way. I'm just saying that game genres should cater to the definite biological differences in interests between men and women. Do you disagree? Fine. I accept your disagreement. Let's agree to disagree and not let this turn into a gender flame war. I'm not going to reply this thread.
  - lazyasciiart 6y ago
    I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that if you'd looked at research, you'd know better than to make definitive statements or to rely on your personal anecdotes from toddlerhood. I was also assuming that you were not actually intending to make inflammatory statements prompting people to correct you (what you are probably referring to as a gender flame war), but from your various responses I am no longer sure that assumption is valid. It's somewhat ironic that your participation here consists of a) a thread where you strenuously argue that it is not possible to make definite claims of truth backed by science b) a claim that you know the definite truth about a particular scientific question.
    - neonological 6y ago
      Hey, stop being a creeper. Don't stalk my old posts, wtf.
      - lazyasciiart 6y ago
        I'd say we have different definitions of creeper. And stalking.
        neonological 6y ago
        Tell your colleagues that you’ve read their past instagrams then. You only do this bs here because it’s anonymous.
- tryonenow 6y ago
  Sociology is absolutely infested with progressive dogma. I imagine anyone who dared to ask, let alone research, whether there were biological origins for gendered behaviors and tastes would be cancelled, if they could even get funding. So there is an implicit pressure not to ask certain questions, and any modern research into the subject is going to be horribly biased. This idea that all gender differences are purely environmental is at odds with the sexually dimorphic specialization that we observe across time, culture, and species. It makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. We know that hormones influence behavior. And then there are physical differences between men and women that also will inevitably combine on to manifest as innate gendered preferences. This all in addition to the verified differences in male/female brain structure and processing. This anti-intellectualism is particularly dangerous because, as your comment illustrates, the vast majority of people who are aware of the "research" are completely ignorant of the very real dogmatic pressures pervasive in academia which suppress entire opposing viewpoints. The result is increasingly poor policy in the corporate and political spheres.
Talanes 6y ago
When I was five, the things I wanted most were a Power Rangers Dragonzord and an Easy Bake Oven. Never got either... It's fine that your childhood preferences aligned perfectly with gender stereotypes, but experiences vary. As an aside to the potentially harmful aspect of stereotypes in childhood, I think I could have been more athletic. Not an athlete, mind you, but I definitely had the physical prowess to have learned to enjoy sports as a child. But adults told me I was smart, and the culture told me that smart people didn't enjoy physical activity.
filleduchaos 6y ago
While we're sharing anecdotes, I have also been into warriors, ninjas, dinosaurs, jet planes, guns, swords, explosions and weaponry since I was a young child. What I 100% was not into was: - all the bullying and exclusion I got from boys when I tried to do or talk about "their things" with them - the way I was inevitably the one that got called away to help out with one chore or errand or the other - being scrutinised (to the point of pathologising) for openly being unbothered by violence and gore - on the flip side, the rather weird expectation that I should or would be open to (receiving) violence and aggression in real life just because I do so on a screen, or that I could not also like teddy bears and flowers and family - the reinforcement from many of the games (and other media) themselves that these were Boys' Things for a Boys' Club that I was just intruding on - the step beyond bullying and into actual, pretty vile harassment when I eventually started trying to play or talk about games in a bigger context (i.e. online)
meheleventyone 6y ago
Honestly it’s amazing you can recall what you drew at 3 or 4 in enough detail let alone what your classmates drew!
renewiltord 6y ago
Surely this comment is beyond Poe's Law.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
bregma 6y ago
Gender conditioning starts before birth ("should I paint the nursery walls pink or blue?") and slams the child the moment they;re squeezed out. Toddlers are not good or bad, they're "good boys" or "bad girls", reinforcing gender-role stereotypes from the earliest learning years. Don't assume that after 3 or 4 years of full-time operant conditioning that there is anything inherently organic about your gendered behaviour.
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  -Toddlers are not good or bad, they're "good boys" or "bad girls" ...huh? Am i missing something? Is there a problem with telling children what gender they belong to?? Am i just being thick? Help me, anyone. Please
  - andrewzah 6y ago
    No. They're saying that toddlers also get socially conditioned from birth. So the behaviors that they display are not 100% inherent. So how toddlers act isn't really a good (scientific) argument for nature vs nurture.
- neonological 6y ago
  I urge you to read the below: https://sites.psu.edu/evolutionofhumansexuality/2014/04/07/gender-identity-nature-vs-nurture/ https://sites.psu.edu/evolutionofhumansexuality/2014/04/07/g... TLDR: males castrated at birth and raised as females still had a male gender identity. There is no controversy behind this in science. Most of this controversy exists in gender politics. But the politics is so strong one of my repliers just assumed I didn’t do any research when the opposite is true. Research indicates gender identity is biological if you don’t know this you didn’t do the research. You can still choose to hold a different conclusion then the entire scientific community... that is your right. Now I’m not here to start a debate. I couldn’t resist replying to you but for the sake of not starting an off topic gender flame war and violating HN rules I’m not going to respond. Just read the evidence and take what you will from it is just information to add to your existing knowledge.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

lazyasciiart 6y ago

If this is something you find interesting or where your opinion might matter to other people, I encourage you to look into the enormous amount of research that has been done on differences between men and women in our current society and what might cause those differences. If you don't feel like doing that, a good alternative is that you should not be definite about any of it.

neonological 6y ago
>If you don't feel like doing that, a good alternative is that you should not be definite about any of it. I can be definite about anything I want. Additionally, how do you know I haven't already looked at the enormous amount of research? Either way, the research supports my views in a pretty definitive way. I'm just saying that game genres should cater to the definite biological differences in interests between men and women. Do you disagree? Fine. I accept your disagreement. Let's agree to disagree and not let this turn into a gender flame war. I'm not going to reply this thread.
- lazyasciiart 6y ago
  I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that if you'd looked at research, you'd know better than to make definitive statements or to rely on your personal anecdotes from toddlerhood. I was also assuming that you were not actually intending to make inflammatory statements prompting people to correct you (what you are probably referring to as a gender flame war), but from your various responses I am no longer sure that assumption is valid. It's somewhat ironic that your participation here consists of a) a thread where you strenuously argue that it is not possible to make definite claims of truth backed by science b) a claim that you know the definite truth about a particular scientific question.
  - neonological 6y ago
    Hey, stop being a creeper. Don't stalk my old posts, wtf.
    - lazyasciiart 6y ago
      I'd say we have different definitions of creeper. And stalking.
      - neonological 6y ago
        Tell your colleagues that you’ve read their past instagrams then. You only do this bs here because it’s anonymous.
tryonenow 6y ago
Sociology is absolutely infested with progressive dogma. I imagine anyone who dared to ask, let alone research, whether there were biological origins for gendered behaviors and tastes would be cancelled, if they could even get funding. So there is an implicit pressure not to ask certain questions, and any modern research into the subject is going to be horribly biased. This idea that all gender differences are purely environmental is at odds with the sexually dimorphic specialization that we observe across time, culture, and species. It makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. We know that hormones influence behavior. And then there are physical differences between men and women that also will inevitably combine on to manifest as innate gendered preferences. This all in addition to the verified differences in male/female brain structure and processing. This anti-intellectualism is particularly dangerous because, as your comment illustrates, the vast majority of people who are aware of the "research" are completely ignorant of the very real dogmatic pressures pervasive in academia which suppress entire opposing viewpoints. The result is increasingly poor policy in the corporate and political spheres.

Talanes 6y ago

When I was five, the things I wanted most were a Power Rangers Dragonzord and an Easy Bake Oven. Never got either... It's fine that your childhood preferences aligned perfectly with gender stereotypes, but experiences vary. As an aside to the potentially harmful aspect of stereotypes in childhood, I think I could have been more athletic. Not an athlete, mind you, but I definitely had the physical prowess to have learned to enjoy sports as a child. But adults told me I was smart, and the culture told me that smart people didn't enjoy physical activity.

filleduchaos 6y ago

While we're sharing anecdotes, I have also been into warriors, ninjas, dinosaurs, jet planes, guns, swords, explosions and weaponry since I was a young child. What I 100% was not into was: - all the bullying and exclusion I got from boys when I tried to do or talk about "their things" with them - the way I was inevitably the one that got called away to help out with one chore or errand or the other - being scrutinised (to the point of pathologising) for openly being unbothered by violence and gore - on the flip side, the rather weird expectation that I should or would be open to (receiving) violence and aggression in real life just because I do so on a screen, or that I could not also like teddy bears and flowers and family - the reinforcement from many of the games (and other media) themselves that these were Boys' Things for a Boys' Club that I was just intruding on - the step beyond bullying and into actual, pretty vile harassment when I eventually started trying to play or talk about games in a bigger context (i.e. online)

meheleventyone 6y ago

Honestly it’s amazing you can recall what you drew at 3 or 4 in enough detail let alone what your classmates drew!

renewiltord 6y ago

Surely this comment is beyond Poe's Law.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

bregma 6y ago

Gender conditioning starts before birth ("should I paint the nursery walls pink or blue?") and slams the child the moment they;re squeezed out. Toddlers are not good or bad, they're "good boys" or "bad girls", reinforcing gender-role stereotypes from the earliest learning years. Don't assume that after 3 or 4 years of full-time operant conditioning that there is anything inherently organic about your gendered behaviour.

marshmallow_12 6y ago
-Toddlers are not good or bad, they're "good boys" or "bad girls" ...huh? Am i missing something? Is there a problem with telling children what gender they belong to?? Am i just being thick? Help me, anyone. Please
- andrewzah 6y ago
  No. They're saying that toddlers also get socially conditioned from birth. So the behaviors that they display are not 100% inherent. So how toddlers act isn't really a good (scientific) argument for nature vs nurture.
neonological 6y ago
I urge you to read the below: https://sites.psu.edu/evolutionofhumansexuality/2014/04/07/gender-identity-nature-vs-nurture/ https://sites.psu.edu/evolutionofhumansexuality/2014/04/07/g... TLDR: males castrated at birth and raised as females still had a male gender identity. There is no controversy behind this in science. Most of this controversy exists in gender politics. But the politics is so strong one of my repliers just assumed I didn’t do any research when the opposite is true. Research indicates gender identity is biological if you don’t know this you didn’t do the research. You can still choose to hold a different conclusion then the entire scientific community... that is your right. Now I’m not here to start a debate. I couldn’t resist replying to you but for the sake of not starting an off topic gender flame war and violating HN rules I’m not going to respond. Just read the evidence and take what you will from it is just information to add to your existing knowledge.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]