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Right. I think most people here don’t understand there’s more troops stationed and In full force in DC than in Baghdad, Iraq. All this for the “largest” insurr

by whb07 6y ago

Right. I think most people here don’t understand there’s more troops stationed and In full force in DC than in Baghdad, Iraq. All this for the “largest” insurrection with smiling grandmas taking pictures as if in a tour. Let’s stop the fake political show.

enkid 6y ago
There were also people in fully tactical gear with bombs and zip cuffs. A police officer died due to these protestors actions. Stop minimizing it.
- whb07 6y ago
  No police officer died. You’re being brain washed by going to the extremes. You’re proving my point. There is ZERO reason to station thousands of soldiers and barb wire fence around the “people’s building” all at the behest of politics.
  - stonogo 6y ago
    You should get this important information into the hands of your elected representatives, who are best positioned to act upon it.
    - whb07 6y ago
      Maybe they’ll request to have crew served weapons to mow down civilians.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    enkid said "due to these protests". The officer died from a stroke while in the hospital due to injuries received at the riot. That at least is very likely "due to these protests".
- offby37years 6y ago
  Correction: A police officer committed suicide. Pipe bombs were planted the night before. Stop maximising it.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    Do you think the pipe bombs were completely unrelated? If not, why does it matter when they were planted?
  - denkmoon 6y ago
    How exactly does pipe bombs being planted the night before decrease the perversity of the act?
    - offby37years 6y ago
      It eliminates the possibility they were planted in reaction to Trump's remarks on the 6th. It was a seperate event.
      - denkmoon 6y ago
        and? I fail to see the relevance. Trump wasn't telling people to plant pipe bombs, at any stage, ever. It was organised and orchestrated solely by his supporters, in the same way that this 4th of March inauguration thing was invented and potentially to be orchestrated purely by his supporters. That doesn't make it any less wrong.
        offby37years 6y ago
        Unless you have evidence contrary, we have no idea the ideological lean of whoever placed those bombs. They were planted at both the Democratic and Republican headquarters, remember? Associating the act with the events on the day that followed is unsubstantiated.
        denkmoon 6y ago
- gwright 6y ago
  > But according to the new filing, Munchel and his mother took the handcuffs from within the Capitol building — apparently to ensure the Capitol Police couldn't use them on the insurrectionists — rather than bring them in when they initially breached the building. https://www.insider.com/zip-tie-guy-capitol-riot-plastic-handcuffs-police-prosecutors-2021-1 https://www.insider.com/zip-tie-guy-capitol-riot-plastic-han...
krapp 6y ago
Which of those smiling grandmas planted the pipe bombs and ammunition caches? Brought along zip-ties to better facilitate hostage taking? Tore the panic buttons out of Congressional offices?
belltaco 6y ago
Really? Here's some "smiling grandmas" murdering a police officer. And that's just one incident. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ithgUloNR8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ithgUloNR8
refurb 6y ago
"Never let a crisis go to waste" During the senate hearings an FBI official was asked by Senator Johnson how many firearms were seized from the Capital Insurrection - "To my knowledge, none." Turns out "armed" doesn't mean firearms.... And the NYTimes has quietly updated their article on Officer Sicknik's death. Now it's "The circumstances surrounding Mr. Sicknick’s death were not immediately clear"... this is after claiming he was killed by rioters. Once the hysteria faded the story started falling apart.
- throwaway34241 6y ago
  IMO the Capitol riot (and arguably some other aspects of Trump's movement) are symptoms of underlying problems in addition to being standalone events. So while I agree it's possible to make too much of the danger posed by specific events (no, there was never a serious chance for them to overthrow the government), I think the case is much stronger for the symptom-of-underlying-problem part and it makes some of the alarmism seem more reasonable in that context. In this specific case, I think the major underlying thing is the narrative pushed by Trump that the Democrats have just overtly dumped millions of votes to steal the election, and the courts, the legislature, and even others in his own political faction have failed us (and so, democracy has just de-facto collapsed in the US). Now, Trump says a lot of stuff, and almost no one takes everything he says seriously, so it's worth looking at the data. But polls indicate that about 12% of Trump voters see Biden as the legitimate winner, and 73% view the election as stolen [1], so it's taken pretty well (in fact, so well that other Republicans can't effectively push back on it without jeopardizing their own political survival, but their equivocation just reinforces the narrative and causes them to lose further ground to the Trump faction). Of course, most people won't take any action even if they feel a sinister faction has undermined democracy is this country, but it wouldn't be totally surprising if a tiny percentage are thinking about it (which in this case could add up to a substantial number), so the idea that law enforcement is seeing info that leads them to be concerned seems at least plausible. I wouldn't automatically write it off as only political. As an anecdote I have a close relative in the midwest who is so polarized that they openly express desire for a right wing dictatorship (and they don't even view the election as stolen). Just one data point so not worth much, but I guess it makes the idea that extreme feelings are increasing and could boil over for a few people already on the edge feel more plausible to me. [1] https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/imdk8zumh5/econTabReport.pdf https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/imdk8zumh5/econTabReport.pdf

by whb07 6y ago

enkid 6y ago

There were also people in fully tactical gear with bombs and zip cuffs. A police officer died due to these protestors actions. Stop minimizing it.

whb07 6y ago
No police officer died. You’re being brain washed by going to the extremes. You’re proving my point. There is ZERO reason to station thousands of soldiers and barb wire fence around the “people’s building” all at the behest of politics.
- stonogo 6y ago
  You should get this important information into the hands of your elected representatives, who are best positioned to act upon it.
  - whb07 6y ago
    Maybe they’ll request to have crew served weapons to mow down civilians.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  enkid said "due to these protests". The officer died from a stroke while in the hospital due to injuries received at the riot. That at least is very likely "due to these protests".
offby37years 6y ago
Correction: A police officer committed suicide. Pipe bombs were planted the night before. Stop maximising it.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  Do you think the pipe bombs were completely unrelated? If not, why does it matter when they were planted?
- denkmoon 6y ago
  How exactly does pipe bombs being planted the night before decrease the perversity of the act?
  - offby37years 6y ago
    It eliminates the possibility they were planted in reaction to Trump's remarks on the 6th. It was a seperate event.
    - denkmoon 6y ago
      and? I fail to see the relevance. Trump wasn't telling people to plant pipe bombs, at any stage, ever. It was organised and orchestrated solely by his supporters, in the same way that this 4th of March inauguration thing was invented and potentially to be orchestrated purely by his supporters. That doesn't make it any less wrong.
      - offby37years 6y ago
        Unless you have evidence contrary, we have no idea the ideological lean of whoever placed those bombs. They were planted at both the Democratic and Republican headquarters, remember? Associating the act with the events on the day that followed is unsubstantiated.
        denkmoon 6y ago
gwright 6y ago
> But according to the new filing, Munchel and his mother took the handcuffs from within the Capitol building — apparently to ensure the Capitol Police couldn't use them on the insurrectionists — rather than bring them in when they initially breached the building. https://www.insider.com/zip-tie-guy-capitol-riot-plastic-handcuffs-police-prosecutors-2021-1 https://www.insider.com/zip-tie-guy-capitol-riot-plastic-han...

krapp 6y ago

Which of those smiling grandmas planted the pipe bombs and ammunition caches? Brought along zip-ties to better facilitate hostage taking? Tore the panic buttons out of Congressional offices?

belltaco 6y ago

Really? Here's some "smiling grandmas" murdering a police officer. And that's just one incident. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ithgUloNR8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ithgUloNR8

refurb 6y ago

"Never let a crisis go to waste" During the senate hearings an FBI official was asked by Senator Johnson how many firearms were seized from the Capital Insurrection - "To my knowledge, none." Turns out "armed" doesn't mean firearms.... And the NYTimes has quietly updated their article on Officer Sicknik's death. Now it's "The circumstances surrounding Mr. Sicknick’s death were not immediately clear"... this is after claiming he was killed by rioters. Once the hysteria faded the story started falling apart.

throwaway34241 6y ago
IMO the Capitol riot (and arguably some other aspects of Trump's movement) are symptoms of underlying problems in addition to being standalone events. So while I agree it's possible to make too much of the danger posed by specific events (no, there was never a serious chance for them to overthrow the government), I think the case is much stronger for the symptom-of-underlying-problem part and it makes some of the alarmism seem more reasonable in that context. In this specific case, I think the major underlying thing is the narrative pushed by Trump that the Democrats have just overtly dumped millions of votes to steal the election, and the courts, the legislature, and even others in his own political faction have failed us (and so, democracy has just de-facto collapsed in the US). Now, Trump says a lot of stuff, and almost no one takes everything he says seriously, so it's worth looking at the data. But polls indicate that about 12% of Trump voters see Biden as the legitimate winner, and 73% view the election as stolen [1], so it's taken pretty well (in fact, so well that other Republicans can't effectively push back on it without jeopardizing their own political survival, but their equivocation just reinforces the narrative and causes them to lose further ground to the Trump faction). Of course, most people won't take any action even if they feel a sinister faction has undermined democracy is this country, but it wouldn't be totally surprising if a tiny percentage are thinking about it (which in this case could add up to a substantial number), so the idea that law enforcement is seeing info that leads them to be concerned seems at least plausible. I wouldn't automatically write it off as only political. As an anecdote I have a close relative in the midwest who is so polarized that they openly express desire for a right wing dictatorship (and they don't even view the election as stolen). Just one data point so not worth much, but I guess it makes the idea that extreme feelings are increasing and could boil over for a few people already on the edge feel more plausible to me. [1] https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/imdk8zumh5/econTabReport.pdf https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/imdk8zumh5/econTabReport.pdf