4 ms·

"There's a board, there's rules, and it plays. However ask any serious player about the game, and you'll discover very quickly that there is far more to the gam

"There's a board, there's rules, and it plays. However ask any serious player about the game, and you'll discover very quickly that there is far more to the game then just the board and how the pieces move." If by "far more", you mean "following these rules can result in any one of a large combination of outcomes, and at any given point it's nearly impossible to keep them all in your head", I agree. If you're talking about the thrill of it, that's external to the game: it's human feelings and human interactions. Which is exactly what a materialistic view of the universe would dismiss as illusory.

georgieporgie 15y ago
Which is exactly what a materialistic view of the universe would dismiss as illusory. Huh? Apply your same logic, "following these rules can result in any one of a large combination of outcomes." Bingo, you have thinking, feeling creatures. Nothing has been dismissed.
pygy_ 15y ago
There is far more to non-religious views of subjectivity than the simplistic, materialistic negationism. You're beating a straw man here. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Mind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Mind for the details.
- yters 15y ago
  Materialistic negationism is the only coherent position, since there is only material. Everything else is just as religious as the religions that atheists bash.
  - pygy_ 15y ago
    What about your own subjectivity? How would you explain the difference between red and blue to a blind man, or what it feels like to fall in love to a robot without the appropriate subjective apparatus (or even to someone who never did (yes, it exists))? See http://clm.utexas.edu/~compjc/papers/Tononi2008a.pdf http://clm.utexas.edu/~compjc/papers/Tononi2008a.pdf and the next two links for what I bet my money on regarding scientific theories of consciousness. http://www.coma.ulg.ac.be/papers/vs/boly_PBR_coma_science_2009.pdf http://www.coma.ulg.ac.be/papers/vs/boly_PBR_coma_science_20... http://www.coma.ulg.ac.be/papers/vs/massimini_PBR_coma_science_2009.pdf http://www.coma.ulg.ac.be/papers/vs/massimini_PBR_coma_scien...

georgieporgie 15y ago

Which is exactly what a materialistic view of the universe would dismiss as illusory. Huh? Apply your same logic, "following these rules can result in any one of a large combination of outcomes." Bingo, you have thinking, feeling creatures. Nothing has been dismissed.

pygy_ 15y ago

There is far more to non-religious views of subjectivity than the simplistic, materialistic negationism. You're beating a straw man here. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Mind http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_Mind for the details.

yters 15y ago
Materialistic negationism is the only coherent position, since there is only material. Everything else is just as religious as the religions that atheists bash.
- pygy_ 15y ago
  What about your own subjectivity? How would you explain the difference between red and blue to a blind man, or what it feels like to fall in love to a robot without the appropriate subjective apparatus (or even to someone who never did (yes, it exists))? See http://clm.utexas.edu/~compjc/papers/Tononi2008a.pdf http://clm.utexas.edu/~compjc/papers/Tononi2008a.pdf and the next two links for what I bet my money on regarding scientific theories of consciousness. http://www.coma.ulg.ac.be/papers/vs/boly_PBR_coma_science_2009.pdf http://www.coma.ulg.ac.be/papers/vs/boly_PBR_coma_science_20... http://www.coma.ulg.ac.be/papers/vs/massimini_PBR_coma_science_2009.pdf http://www.coma.ulg.ac.be/papers/vs/massimini_PBR_coma_scien...