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Just looking at this data I question why even bother working for a startup. Getting paid 200k at a startup is a rarity, usually with poor health benefits. Lots

Just looking at this data I question why even bother working for a startup. Getting paid 200k at a startup is a rarity, usually with poor health benefits. Lots of work and a hope that you can make up the difference in case of a huge sale. Am I looking at it wrong?

notJim 6y ago
For me, startups helped me establish a track record and learn practical skills that helped get into bigger companies. I don't have a CS degree, and didn't go to a fancy school, so experience helped a lot. But now that I'm past that period, the value proposition of most startups seems really bad. Especially given ageism in tech, I think it really makes sense to maximize earnings while you can. The really only reason I can imagine doing it would be if I really liked the team and product, such that the actual experience of working there was going to be really fun. But the startups I worked at were similar or worse than the larger companies on those fronts. I think this Dan Luu article is a good look at it: https://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/ https://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/
darkwizard42 6y ago
It depends on if you are optimizing for money, work-life balance, interest, impact etc. If you want the money... you can't beat the highly profitable big-tech companies. If you want small teams, deep ownership of the projects you work on, and like being invested in your product/company you might enjoy a start up more. (also this isn't a dig at big companies, it's just way harder to match the start-up/small co. experience)
ska 6y ago
> Am I looking at it wrong? It all depends on what you want out of your work. The balance has shifted semi recently so that if you want to maximize your expected earnings, for most tech area engineers the answer has shifted from "pick the right startup" or maybe "go be a quant if you can" to "go work for FAANG". Things get a lot more complicated if you are not merely optimizing for income.
- Mehdi2277 6y ago
  Quants still pay a silly amount that being a quant at a top firm (citadel, jane street, HRT, etc) still out pays FAANG most of the time. A candidate that interviews well and negotiates some can go for 300-400k new grad bachelors to those firms. That's not doable at FAANG. For FAANGs, over 300k without equity growth requires senior level or top band mid level. 400k needs senior level. While for citadel they're willing to immediately go that high. The growth in pay is also high in finance although it is very bonus heavy so performance matters a lot more than other places.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Quality of life and pay per hour is better at FAANG, from the people I’ve seen at both.
iaw 6y ago
Nope, that's why FAANG pays so much: startups can't compete and they get a monopoly on talent.
eweise 6y ago
I've worked at a bunch of startups (20 years) and what I've learned is: Do not work at an early stage startup! - Shitty experience because you won't have to do things right. Initial system will turn out like crap because you are rushed to build it. - You will be in constant firefights once live. You will feel like a hero but in reality you're just burning yourself out to make the leadership rich. - No customers so won't learn about scaling, - Little to no process. - Pay is crap - Equity is a complete scam. Company will do everything they can to keep you from capitalizing on them. 90 day exercise after leaving. 8-10 years before there's a market to sell and you won't last that long. Company won't buy them from you. Common shares instead of preferred. Dilution, etc. - Management is inexperienced and a lot of times abusive. - Once the company starts to succeed, a new wave of management will be hired. They will bring their own direct reports who blame you for creating the initial crappy system and your career will essentially be over at the startup. I could go on.
- JamesFM 6y ago
  This is spot on to my experience as well. Startup employees seems to move in waves and being the first wave of employees at a startup usually means working the hardest and getting burnt out. In my experience it's the second and third wave employees that have it easier, get to reap the benefits. (Also, your bullets didn't format properly, you may want to edit your response to fix that)

notJim 6y ago

For me, startups helped me establish a track record and learn practical skills that helped get into bigger companies. I don't have a CS degree, and didn't go to a fancy school, so experience helped a lot. But now that I'm past that period, the value proposition of most startups seems really bad. Especially given ageism in tech, I think it really makes sense to maximize earnings while you can. The really only reason I can imagine doing it would be if I really liked the team and product, such that the actual experience of working there was going to be really fun. But the startups I worked at were similar or worse than the larger companies on those fronts. I think this Dan Luu article is a good look at it: https://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/ https://danluu.com/startup-tradeoffs/

darkwizard42 6y ago

It depends on if you are optimizing for money, work-life balance, interest, impact etc. If you want the money... you can't beat the highly profitable big-tech companies. If you want small teams, deep ownership of the projects you work on, and like being invested in your product/company you might enjoy a start up more. (also this isn't a dig at big companies, it's just way harder to match the start-up/small co. experience)

ska 6y ago

> Am I looking at it wrong? It all depends on what you want out of your work. The balance has shifted semi recently so that if you want to maximize your expected earnings, for most tech area engineers the answer has shifted from "pick the right startup" or maybe "go be a quant if you can" to "go work for FAANG". Things get a lot more complicated if you are not merely optimizing for income.

Mehdi2277 6y ago
Quants still pay a silly amount that being a quant at a top firm (citadel, jane street, HRT, etc) still out pays FAANG most of the time. A candidate that interviews well and negotiates some can go for 300-400k new grad bachelors to those firms. That's not doable at FAANG. For FAANGs, over 300k without equity growth requires senior level or top band mid level. 400k needs senior level. While for citadel they're willing to immediately go that high. The growth in pay is also high in finance although it is very bonus heavy so performance matters a lot more than other places.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Quality of life and pay per hour is better at FAANG, from the people I’ve seen at both.

iaw 6y ago

Nope, that's why FAANG pays so much: startups can't compete and they get a monopoly on talent.

eweise 6y ago

I've worked at a bunch of startups (20 years) and what I've learned is: Do not work at an early stage startup! - Shitty experience because you won't have to do things right. Initial system will turn out like crap because you are rushed to build it. - You will be in constant firefights once live. You will feel like a hero but in reality you're just burning yourself out to make the leadership rich. - No customers so won't learn about scaling, - Little to no process. - Pay is crap - Equity is a complete scam. Company will do everything they can to keep you from capitalizing on them. 90 day exercise after leaving. 8-10 years before there's a market to sell and you won't last that long. Company won't buy them from you. Common shares instead of preferred. Dilution, etc. - Management is inexperienced and a lot of times abusive. - Once the company starts to succeed, a new wave of management will be hired. They will bring their own direct reports who blame you for creating the initial crappy system and your career will essentially be over at the startup. I could go on.

JamesFM 6y ago
This is spot on to my experience as well. Startup employees seems to move in waves and being the first wave of employees at a startup usually means working the hardest and getting burnt out. In my experience it's the second and third wave employees that have it easier, get to reap the benefits. (Also, your bullets didn't format properly, you may want to edit your response to fix that)