4 ms·

How is he lousy?

JshWright 6y ago
He is quick to make personal attacks if someone disagrees with him. He has repeatedly engaged in ethically questionable influencing of the stock prices of companies in which he holds a significant position. He seems pretty quick to abuse the idolatry that many of his fans seem to hold for him.
- lhoff 6y ago
  The big question is imho if the behaviour is a symptom of the same underlaying character prepositions that cause his great success. Don't get me wrong i don't want to apologize his behaviour.
ceejayoz 6y ago
Can we not? His achievements and things like his public fights with cave rescuers and the SEC are both public record and exhaustively discussed.
- drcross 6y ago
  He who is without sin can cast the first stone.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    No one's stoning anyone to death. It is a mistake to believe the point of that parable is "you shouldn't ever even criticize anyone unless you're perfect".
  - ncallaway 6y ago
    Is your position that absolutely no one should be criticized for anything, because everybody is guilty of something? I don't think that was the meaning of that verse.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
tidepod12 6y ago
He promotes conspiracy theories, is transphobic, put all of his workers at risk by ignoring (and actively advocating against) COVID safety protocols at his factories, is notorious for promoting a hostile work environment and overworking employees for poor pay...
thepasswordis 6y ago
He's trying to make humanity a multiplanetary species while at the same time trying to get humanity off of fossil fuels by completely upending and dominating: 1) The space industry 2) The automotive industry 3) The solar industry 4) Some parts of the world's power grid infrastructure. He asks a LOT of his employees, and despite his companies being 15 years old at this point, asks for the type of commitment from employees that you would find at an early stage startup. His competitors are largely government contractors, and government-backed natural monopolies. Because of this, the contrast between working for a company like spacex (innovate or die) is in stark contrast to something like ULA (rest on the momentum you have built over the last 50 years. Go home every day at 5:00. Lobby your boss for 4 day work weeks). There are a LOT of people who look at the people working at SpaceX, see the insane schedule the work at, and resent them for it. They are literally trying to save the human species. It turns out that requires some pretty serious dedication, but it also turns out that there are going to be some people who hate you for it when you try. Also: there have been MASSIVE short positions taken against tesla in the last 5 years. So there has been a lot of negative stories and anecdotes shared about the working conditions of Tesla factors. However it should be noted that those working conditions are approximately the same (or better) than at most other large automobile manufacturers.
- outworlder 6y ago
  While I believe he truly wants to make humanity a multi planetary species, I doubt that's out of the goodness of his heart. You can do this without being a shitty person. Or overworking your employees. This is a long term project.
  - thepasswordis 6y ago
    On what basis do you doubt that? Nearly everything he does or says, every interview, every company, seems singularly focused on the goal of bettering the chance of humanity existing forever. What insight do you have that I’m missing?

How is he lousy?

He is quick to make personal attacks if someone disagrees with him. He has repeatedly engaged in ethically questionable influencing of the stock prices of companies in which he holds a significant position. He seems pretty quick to abuse the idolatry that many of his fans seem to hold for him.

lhoff 6y ago
The big question is imho if the behaviour is a symptom of the same underlaying character prepositions that cause his great success. Don't get me wrong i don't want to apologize his behaviour.

ceejayoz 6y ago

Can we not? His achievements and things like his public fights with cave rescuers and the SEC are both public record and exhaustively discussed.

drcross 6y ago
He who is without sin can cast the first stone.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  No one's stoning anyone to death. It is a mistake to believe the point of that parable is "you shouldn't ever even criticize anyone unless you're perfect".
- ncallaway 6y ago
  Is your position that absolutely no one should be criticized for anything, because everybody is guilty of something? I don't think that was the meaning of that verse.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

tidepod12 6y ago

He promotes conspiracy theories, is transphobic, put all of his workers at risk by ignoring (and actively advocating against) COVID safety protocols at his factories, is notorious for promoting a hostile work environment and overworking employees for poor pay...

thepasswordis 6y ago

He's trying to make humanity a multiplanetary species while at the same time trying to get humanity off of fossil fuels by completely upending and dominating: 1) The space industry 2) The automotive industry 3) The solar industry 4) Some parts of the world's power grid infrastructure. He asks a LOT of his employees, and despite his companies being 15 years old at this point, asks for the type of commitment from employees that you would find at an early stage startup. His competitors are largely government contractors, and government-backed natural monopolies. Because of this, the contrast between working for a company like spacex (innovate or die) is in stark contrast to something like ULA (rest on the momentum you have built over the last 50 years. Go home every day at 5:00. Lobby your boss for 4 day work weeks). There are a LOT of people who look at the people working at SpaceX, see the insane schedule the work at, and resent them for it. They are literally trying to save the human species. It turns out that requires some pretty serious dedication, but it also turns out that there are going to be some people who hate you for it when you try. Also: there have been MASSIVE short positions taken against tesla in the last 5 years. So there has been a lot of negative stories and anecdotes shared about the working conditions of Tesla factors. However it should be noted that those working conditions are approximately the same (or better) than at most other large automobile manufacturers.

outworlder 6y ago
While I believe he truly wants to make humanity a multi planetary species, I doubt that's out of the goodness of his heart. You can do this without being a shitty person. Or overworking your employees. This is a long term project.
- thepasswordis 6y ago
  On what basis do you doubt that? Nearly everything he does or says, every interview, every company, seems singularly focused on the goal of bettering the chance of humanity existing forever. What insight do you have that I’m missing?