6 ms·

I see some Google Cloud folks in the comments, so question for you, if you're able to share: There seems to be a general fear about Google potentially killing

by jabo 6y ago

I see some Google Cloud folks in the comments, so question for you, if you're able to share: There seems to be a general fear about Google potentially killing off a product, based on recent history [1]. Now I know most of these are on the consumer side of things, but you can imagine people's concerns if the same thing started happening to Google Cloud products. Is the GCP team aware of these concerns, (or is this just a HN crowd concern) and if so, are there steps being taken to address this perception head on? [1] https://killedbygoogle.com/ https://killedbygoogle.com/

mrtrustor 6y ago
When a company like Deutsche Bank [1] signs a 10-year deal, you can be sure that they have been convinced that the products they rely on will not go anywhere. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-07/google-deutsche-bank-agree-to-10-year-alliance-including-cloud https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-07/google-de... (Google Cloud employee here)
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  That actually doesn't mean anything to me when I personally have had to deal with the shut off of many, many Google products and your competition (AWS) is better in every conceivable way.
  - yesbabyyes 6y ago
    > your competition (AWS) is better in every conceivable way. Is that really true? I don't have a lot of experience with Firebase, just notifications and analytics, but working with Cognito and Amplify one- two years ago was like a bad joke, more similar to a fledgling startup than a well-rounded offering. It rather seems to me that a lot of organisations are moving to GCP; BigQuery and its integrations with other Google products seems like a killer app, and GKE is seen as the better choice for hosted Kubernetes. I'm still a fan of Red Hat's OpenShift, but I'm actually surprised how well Google seems to be managing their {S,P,I}aaS offerings and strategy in this space.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      I had GCP kill my servers without warning because they claimed someone was mining crypto on them (they weren't). That alone was the permanent end to my business relationship with Google. I should have known better though. Like I said, I've been through a lot of Google shutdowns and various screw jobs (remember the Google App Engine price hike?). AWS is a professional product. It has warts but it's much more solid than GCP, technically and from a business perspective.
- justapassenger 6y ago
  What if you aren’t Deutsche Bank? Parts of the products they depend on are mostly safe, what about features they don’t use, but my small shop depends on?
  - techfoolery 6y ago
    Shh... The product marketing-authored deck on common objections doesn't care about SMBs. No offense to the original comment, but that's such a rehearsed answer that as you mentioned is irrelevant (despite sounding good on the surface) to everyone else. A contract like Deutsche Bank means dedicated GCP customer engineers, professional service engagements at the highest levels, direct conversations with individual product leaders/managers, roadmaps conveyed to their needs, alphas etc etc. If it's irrelevant to the Deutsche Bank's of customers, then it's of course fair game to get f'd with.
- Traster 6y ago
  I don't work in cloud, I work in a completely different part of Tech. However, we do deal with big clients, and essentially it was always a different game for them- extended support for products, alpha/patch releases where necessary, because those businesses drive so much revenue and the last thing you want is for the corporation at an organisational level say "We're a <vendor> client". That doesn't help the smaller developers though - you just have to hope that Deutsche Bank wants the same things you do, which is.... unlikely.
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    I think that would be one of the benefits of being Google (or Amazon, or MS) -- their cloud strategy isn't as beholden to a single customer. Which means they may or may not do a good job of feature prioritization, but it's not always "whatever (big customer) wants." FWIW, when I worked for a larger GCP customer, they seemed fairly decent at hearing about and addressing concerns. I realize cloud functionality (especially interfaces) is accreted over the years, and can't be delivered all at once.
- decebalus1 6y ago
  > you can be sure that they have been convinced that the products they rely on will not go anywhere. And the products won't go anywhere.. for Deutsche Bank. This is common for enterprise contracts. It means jack shit for consumers.
- aynyc 6y ago
  Comment like this makes me wonder if you ever worked in enterprise before. Plenty of services/products have been cancelled/mothballed on large enterprise contracts once the services/products are no longer profitable, the services/products generally get sunsetted.
6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
Honest question: Do they kill off GCP services/features? Often? More or less than AWS?
- ghayes 6y ago
  As a user of GCP, this really feels like a HackerNews meme that doesn't have any substance. I have never had a GCP feature killed, but I've had many AWS features mothballed. I am not really sure how to change the perception here since it's easy to say: "Google kills products-- therefore I will never use any Google product†" † Except search, email and phone.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    They kill all kinds of stuff. I still remember dealing with this one: https://cloud.google.com/network-connectivity/docs/vpn/deprecations/classic-vpn-deprecation https://cloud.google.com/network-connectivity/docs/vpn/depre... Here's a take from an ex-googler: https://medium.com/@steve.yegge/dear-google-cloud-your-deprecation-policy-is-killing-you-ee7525dc05dc https://medium.com/@steve.yegge/dear-google-cloud-your-depre...
  - john-shaffer 6y ago
    > I've had many AWS features mothballed. What, exactly? AWS is legendary for maintaining compatibility. Steve Yegge's article gives a good break down on how infamous GCP's deprecation practices are. I was lucky in that GCP killed off the feature I wanted before I ever used it, so I didn't have to get burned in production. AWS has never burned me. (GCP used to have a service to do transformations on images in object storage, which I learned about in an App Engine book. It took me a few hours of searching to even find the deprecation notice. Now I just use https://github.com/awslabs/serverless-image-handler https://github.com/awslabs/serverless-image-handler because I don't trust GCP).
    - ghayes 6y ago
      For me, AWS Opsworks. It felt like once containers came into vogue, they stopped working on the product and it was nigh impossible to switch back to vanilla Chef.
spicyramen 6y ago
Yes, that's happening, promotion process at Google is doing it. Take a look at Pubsub, IOT, and Datalab
- zachberger 6y ago
  Whats happening with pubsub?
Thev00d00 6y ago
They have killed off "classic" VPN for no real reason, as its supported in some cases. Ridiculous.

by jabo 6y ago

mrtrustor 6y ago

When a company like Deutsche Bank [1] signs a 10-year deal, you can be sure that they have been convinced that the products they rely on will not go anywhere. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-07/google-deutsche-bank-agree-to-10-year-alliance-including-cloud https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-07/google-de... (Google Cloud employee here)

solosoyokaze 6y ago
That actually doesn't mean anything to me when I personally have had to deal with the shut off of many, many Google products and your competition (AWS) is better in every conceivable way.
- yesbabyyes 6y ago
  > your competition (AWS) is better in every conceivable way. Is that really true? I don't have a lot of experience with Firebase, just notifications and analytics, but working with Cognito and Amplify one- two years ago was like a bad joke, more similar to a fledgling startup than a well-rounded offering. It rather seems to me that a lot of organisations are moving to GCP; BigQuery and its integrations with other Google products seems like a killer app, and GKE is seen as the better choice for hosted Kubernetes. I'm still a fan of Red Hat's OpenShift, but I'm actually surprised how well Google seems to be managing their {S,P,I}aaS offerings and strategy in this space.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    I had GCP kill my servers without warning because they claimed someone was mining crypto on them (they weren't). That alone was the permanent end to my business relationship with Google. I should have known better though. Like I said, I've been through a lot of Google shutdowns and various screw jobs (remember the Google App Engine price hike?). AWS is a professional product. It has warts but it's much more solid than GCP, technically and from a business perspective.
justapassenger 6y ago
What if you aren’t Deutsche Bank? Parts of the products they depend on are mostly safe, what about features they don’t use, but my small shop depends on?
- techfoolery 6y ago
  Shh... The product marketing-authored deck on common objections doesn't care about SMBs. No offense to the original comment, but that's such a rehearsed answer that as you mentioned is irrelevant (despite sounding good on the surface) to everyone else. A contract like Deutsche Bank means dedicated GCP customer engineers, professional service engagements at the highest levels, direct conversations with individual product leaders/managers, roadmaps conveyed to their needs, alphas etc etc. If it's irrelevant to the Deutsche Bank's of customers, then it's of course fair game to get f'd with.
Traster 6y ago
I don't work in cloud, I work in a completely different part of Tech. However, we do deal with big clients, and essentially it was always a different game for them- extended support for products, alpha/patch releases where necessary, because those businesses drive so much revenue and the last thing you want is for the corporation at an organisational level say "We're a <vendor> client". That doesn't help the smaller developers though - you just have to hope that Deutsche Bank wants the same things you do, which is.... unlikely.
- ethbr0 6y ago
  I think that would be one of the benefits of being Google (or Amazon, or MS) -- their cloud strategy isn't as beholden to a single customer. Which means they may or may not do a good job of feature prioritization, but it's not always "whatever (big customer) wants." FWIW, when I worked for a larger GCP customer, they seemed fairly decent at hearing about and addressing concerns. I realize cloud functionality (especially interfaces) is accreted over the years, and can't be delivered all at once.
decebalus1 6y ago
> you can be sure that they have been convinced that the products they rely on will not go anywhere. And the products won't go anywhere.. for Deutsche Bank. This is common for enterprise contracts. It means jack shit for consumers.
aynyc 6y ago
Comment like this makes me wonder if you ever worked in enterprise before. Plenty of services/products have been cancelled/mothballed on large enterprise contracts once the services/products are no longer profitable, the services/products generally get sunsetted.

6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago

Honest question: Do they kill off GCP services/features? Often? More or less than AWS?

ghayes 6y ago
As a user of GCP, this really feels like a HackerNews meme that doesn't have any substance. I have never had a GCP feature killed, but I've had many AWS features mothballed. I am not really sure how to change the perception here since it's easy to say: "Google kills products-- therefore I will never use any Google product†" † Except search, email and phone.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  They kill all kinds of stuff. I still remember dealing with this one: https://cloud.google.com/network-connectivity/docs/vpn/deprecations/classic-vpn-deprecation https://cloud.google.com/network-connectivity/docs/vpn/depre... Here's a take from an ex-googler: https://medium.com/@steve.yegge/dear-google-cloud-your-deprecation-policy-is-killing-you-ee7525dc05dc https://medium.com/@steve.yegge/dear-google-cloud-your-depre...
- john-shaffer 6y ago
  > I've had many AWS features mothballed. What, exactly? AWS is legendary for maintaining compatibility. Steve Yegge's article gives a good break down on how infamous GCP's deprecation practices are. I was lucky in that GCP killed off the feature I wanted before I ever used it, so I didn't have to get burned in production. AWS has never burned me. (GCP used to have a service to do transformations on images in object storage, which I learned about in an App Engine book. It took me a few hours of searching to even find the deprecation notice. Now I just use https://github.com/awslabs/serverless-image-handler https://github.com/awslabs/serverless-image-handler because I don't trust GCP).
  - ghayes 6y ago
    For me, AWS Opsworks. It felt like once containers came into vogue, they stopped working on the product and it was nigh impossible to switch back to vanilla Chef.

spicyramen 6y ago

Yes, that's happening, promotion process at Google is doing it. Take a look at Pubsub, IOT, and Datalab

zachberger 6y ago
Whats happening with pubsub?

Thev00d00 6y ago

They have killed off "classic" VPN for no real reason, as its supported in some cases. Ridiculous.