8 ms·

Of course, the instant caveat is that defining Stable = In First Marriage doesn't mean they are necessarily "happy." Huge cultural stigmas and structures that

Of course, the instant caveat is that defining Stable = In First Marriage doesn't mean they are necessarily "happy." Huge cultural stigmas and structures that reinforce stability family structures is likely at play. Similar to how other stats show Religious folks have a lower rate of divorce. Partially because of the forces encouraging to not divorce, both positively with huge support networks to keep couples together, and negatively with implicit shame for those who break up. And also partially that many who divorce may also leave said faith (eg self-selection Religiosity). This second component of course doesn't apply to immigrants. Plus, a "no divorce" policy can also create systems where spousal/domestic abuse can run rampant and no recourse to escape. So it's not always the best metric to optimize for.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Not surprised, given the source: https://sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_for_Family_Studies https://sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_for_Family_Studi...
- sebmellen 6y ago
  Rather embarrassing to see such a piece of propaganda posted on HN :/
  - dang 6y ago
    On HN we consider article quality more than site quality [1]. This doesn't seem like a bad article to me. It's an interesting finding, not one that's been much discussed, and certainly possible to have a curious conversation about. Arguably the article title is slightly misleading, because "stable family" can mean many things and has strong emotional associations. So I've changed the title to representative language from the article body [2], which is more precise. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22article%20quality%22%20%22site%20quality%22%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22representative%20language%22&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
    - DiggyJohnson 6y ago
      Neutral (if it was possible) observer here...well handled Dang.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
    - sebmellen 6y ago
      Yes, agreed, I definitely don’t think it should be censored. In fact, the article’s conclusions are interesting, but it is my opinion that it is written in a somewhat deceptive manner. Thank you for changing the submission title.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    Around the world, divorce and single parenthood are taboo, and raising children in two parent households is the social expectation. Even though that’s the dominant view in the world, IFS is one of the few American sources who will take the position that what most of the world believes and practices is actually a good thing. Meanwhile, standard left-leaning news sources like the New York Times religiously follow the minority viewpoint that the increased personal freedom from the sexual revolution and liberalized divorce laws justified those changes. So which exactly is the propaganda?
maerF0x0 6y ago
> happy Is happiness the most important goal? Could one have other aims in life beyond the pursuit of happiness?
- saiya-jin 6y ago
  Yes, if you are able to (many can't for whatever reason, ie messed up childhood). And yes of course, although those aims usually also bring some sort of happiness, at least they do ie for me
- djrogers 6y ago
  What would be the purpose of pursuing something that did not ultimately bring you joy?
  - InvertedRhodium 6y ago
    Stability and safety are both values that a lot of people would put before joy. But fundamentally we're approaching the penultimate "What is the meaning of life?" question - to which everyone has to find their own answers. I suspect hedonists would be inclined to agree with you.
    - d1zzy 6y ago
      Happiness is not the same thing as pleasure. People seeking happiness aren't necessarily hedonists. There's nothing wrong with seeking pleasure (or being a hedonist) but just saying that they shouldn't be considered equivalent.
      - InvertedRhodium 6y ago
        While true, happiness is also not really the same thing as joy either. I agree with the rest of your comment though.
dharmach 6y ago
Both ends will have extremes. Too much calculations, too much expectations, keep hunting for better deals even after marriage, no willingness to compromise, having all eggs in spouse relationship basket and expecting her/him to play all roles, selfishness for own happiness but disregard for children's life, trivial reasons leading to breakup.. Plus culture where freedom, independence and success are more valued than institute of marriage, interdependence and family life.
addicted 6y ago
What about research that shows religious people are also happier than non religious people?
- willcipriano 6y ago
  In addition to the above point many religious organizations offer services like counseling to couples who are struggling as well as things like play groups so parents can manage a date night every once in a while. If you are like me and not religious and have little actual exposure to this sort of thing you may want to spend some time visiting (post Covid) some churches to see what goes on there, its about 50% religion, 50% general life advice and community outreach. It's not surprising to me that a marriage with that support system is less likely to fail than one without.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

Not surprised, given the source: https://sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_for_Family_Studies https://sourcewatch.org/index.php/Institute_for_Family_Studi...

sebmellen 6y ago
Rather embarrassing to see such a piece of propaganda posted on HN :/
- dang 6y ago
  On HN we consider article quality more than site quality [1]. This doesn't seem like a bad article to me. It's an interesting finding, not one that's been much discussed, and certainly possible to have a curious conversation about. Arguably the article title is slightly misleading, because "stable family" can mean many things and has strong emotional associations. So I've changed the title to representative language from the article body [2], which is more precise. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=%22article%20quality%22%20%22site%20quality%22%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20%22representative%20language%22&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
  - DiggyJohnson 6y ago
    Neutral (if it was possible) observer here...well handled Dang.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - sebmellen 6y ago
    Yes, agreed, I definitely don’t think it should be censored. In fact, the article’s conclusions are interesting, but it is my opinion that it is written in a somewhat deceptive manner. Thank you for changing the submission title.
- rayiner 6y ago
  Around the world, divorce and single parenthood are taboo, and raising children in two parent households is the social expectation. Even though that’s the dominant view in the world, IFS is one of the few American sources who will take the position that what most of the world believes and practices is actually a good thing. Meanwhile, standard left-leaning news sources like the New York Times religiously follow the minority viewpoint that the increased personal freedom from the sexual revolution and liberalized divorce laws justified those changes. So which exactly is the propaganda?

maerF0x0 6y ago

> happy Is happiness the most important goal? Could one have other aims in life beyond the pursuit of happiness?

saiya-jin 6y ago
Yes, if you are able to (many can't for whatever reason, ie messed up childhood). And yes of course, although those aims usually also bring some sort of happiness, at least they do ie for me
djrogers 6y ago
What would be the purpose of pursuing something that did not ultimately bring you joy?
- InvertedRhodium 6y ago
  Stability and safety are both values that a lot of people would put before joy. But fundamentally we're approaching the penultimate "What is the meaning of life?" question - to which everyone has to find their own answers. I suspect hedonists would be inclined to agree with you.
  - d1zzy 6y ago
    Happiness is not the same thing as pleasure. People seeking happiness aren't necessarily hedonists. There's nothing wrong with seeking pleasure (or being a hedonist) but just saying that they shouldn't be considered equivalent.
    - InvertedRhodium 6y ago
      While true, happiness is also not really the same thing as joy either. I agree with the rest of your comment though.

dharmach 6y ago

Both ends will have extremes. Too much calculations, too much expectations, keep hunting for better deals even after marriage, no willingness to compromise, having all eggs in spouse relationship basket and expecting her/him to play all roles, selfishness for own happiness but disregard for children's life, trivial reasons leading to breakup.. Plus culture where freedom, independence and success are more valued than institute of marriage, interdependence and family life.

addicted 6y ago

What about research that shows religious people are also happier than non religious people?

willcipriano 6y ago
In addition to the above point many religious organizations offer services like counseling to couples who are struggling as well as things like play groups so parents can manage a date night every once in a while. If you are like me and not religious and have little actual exposure to this sort of thing you may want to spend some time visiting (post Covid) some churches to see what goes on there, its about 50% religion, 50% general life advice and community outreach. It's not surprising to me that a marriage with that support system is less likely to fail than one without.