5 ms·

[Flutter Eng. Dir. here] Still relatively early days for Flutter Web, so I would not be shocked if it's not buttery everywhere. However, we would certainly lo

[Flutter Eng. Dir. here] Still relatively early days for Flutter Web, so I would not be shocked if it's not buttery everywhere. However, we would certainly love to learn more. fluter.dev/support has links as to how to file an issue if you're interested. https://flutterplasma.dev/ https://flutterplasma.dev/ is one demo to try. We expect to be updating flutter.dev/web and flutter.dev/showcase to update more over time.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sydd 6y ago
Thanks for the reply! What about a11y? Can you navigate a Flutter page via keyboard? What about screen reader support?
- timsneath 6y ago
  Yes, we consider accessibility a must-have feature. On the web, we have a second DOM tree called the SemanticsNode tree, which is generated in parallel to the RenderObject DOM tree. The SemanticsNode tree translates the flags, actions, labels, and other semantic properties into ARIA attributes. We've been testing Windows Narrator, VoiceOver, TalkBack, and ChromeVox screen readers to navigate a Flutter web app.
  - mwcampbell 6y ago
    So why is FlutterPlasma.dev completely unusable with a screen reader even after pressing the "turn on accessibility" button? I understand that the actual demo presentation might not be accessible, but the intro screen should be fully readable, and it's not. Edit: You may want to add the NVDA open-source screen reader for Windows to your list. And when you test with a screen reader, make sure you use it the way an actual user would when browsing the web, e.g. using NVDA's browse mode with the arrow keys to move through the page.
  - marcusjt 6y ago
    NVDA is the primary screen reader for 40.6% of them (swiftly followed by JAWS at 40.1%) so why aren't you testing with it? https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey8/#primary https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey8/#primary
notretarded 6y ago
>Still relatively early days for Flutter Web Spoken like a true product evangelist. Good palm off with the "create a ticket" too.
kuschku 6y ago
Have you ever tried one of your demos in Firefox on Mobile and Desktop? They're completely unusable in Firefox. For example, it only scrolls 3 pixels per rotation of the scroll wheel on Windows 10
- oblio 6y ago
  Firefox is on the Google chopping block. They won't admit it but they're killing it by a thousand CSS cuts.
  - SanderNL 6y ago
    Why are you guys here on HN still using Chrome? There is literally not a single reason I can think of to be supporting this behemoth that is killing the open web. Firefox is excellent actually and Firebug IMO is far superior to Chrome's offering. I understand non-techies using it like they used Explorer, but come on guys.
    - oblio 6y ago
      Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:85.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/85.0
    - tcit 6y ago
      > Firebug Which year is this ?
      - EvilEy3 6y ago
        The year when Chrome actually threatens open web.
dbjacobs 6y ago
On my iPhone 12 mini the demo took 13 seconds to show me something besides a blank screen. On my desktop it was around 3 seconds and cpu usage went through the roof.
deft 6y ago
No, I won't help you. The OP post is about how great flutter is and you're in the comments telling everyone it will actually be useable soon and asking us to test it for you on common browsers.
sriku 6y ago
Sorry but the plasmadev demo doesn't pass muster compared to 60fps animations we were able to do years ago with html+js. Something about the renderer approach is causing hiccups in the animation. "Buttery smooth animations and scrolling" will be a great selling point for flutter ..if it actually works. (Firefox)
- sriku 6y ago
  I'd say a goal of "do useful stuff extremely well and complex stuff reasonably well" would make for a good demo.
qbasic_forever 6y ago
The plasma demo you linked runs at a stuttery 40fps on Firefox (ubuntu 20.10) on a quad core Ryzen 5 laptop. The fans immediately spin to max speed. I'm not impressed... Here's a hard question, why is this surprising to you? What are you missing in development--is this a gap in testing? Are you hamstrung without support internally to bake this as long as it needs? Rather than double-down on extolling the virtues here, it's time to double-down on fixing the team and the product.
- agucova 6y ago
  I got 14 fps with heavy stuttering and freezing with my i5-9300H with 8 cores :(
- Jyaif 6y ago
  60 fps on a 2016 macbook. Maybe you don't have GPU acceleration enabled?
marcusjt 6y ago
FWIW the plasma demo runs at something like 50fps in Chrome on my 3yr old Samsung Galaxy S9, and only a bit worse in Firefox (perhaps 40fps) - so they are not buttery smooth experiences, but neither are they terrible.
dmitriid 6y ago
> However, we would certainly love to learn more. It's... It's very easy to learn more for yourself. - Ask your company to provide you with a MacBook Air (not the M1, a regular one) or a mid-tier PC - Use any browser other than Chrome (and other thank Blink-based browsers) - Go and use the very same demos you so proudly present Boom. Learning.
- EvilEy3 6y ago
  Why is this downvoted?
bsimpson 6y ago
Oooff, the edges in that demo look terrible - particularly the grey boxes in perspective. The demo boasts that it isn't a video, but the interpolation looks as bad as one. I hate to be critical - I'm sure a lot of work has gone into this - but there's still lots of room for improvement too.
the_duke 6y ago
As usual for Google products, this works fine in Chrome on a decently powerful desktop. Not up to the speed of well-written Javascript, but definitely viable. In contrast, this is completely unusable on other browsers or on lower powered devices. On Firefox desktop, initial loading brings a "This page seems to be stuck" prompt. Once it finally loads, clicking the play button just does nothing. Please note that for 80+% of websites/apps, Firefox is faster or on par with Chrome for me. Google products and some other exceptions are the only ones that are consistently slow on Firefox. Whether that's intentional or just a lack of testing, I can't say. Similarly unusable on Safari. On lower powered devices this just freezes Chrome for me. As I mentioned in other comments, I like Flutter, but Flutter Web is not anywhere close to being viable for production use.
jpxw 6y ago
flutterplasma.dev just shows a blank screen for me on iOS safari. Every few refreshes I can can get the content to show for a split second before it goes back to white...
EvilEy3 6y ago
> early days > production ready Pick one.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

sydd 6y ago

Thanks for the reply! What about a11y? Can you navigate a Flutter page via keyboard? What about screen reader support?

timsneath 6y ago
Yes, we consider accessibility a must-have feature. On the web, we have a second DOM tree called the SemanticsNode tree, which is generated in parallel to the RenderObject DOM tree. The SemanticsNode tree translates the flags, actions, labels, and other semantic properties into ARIA attributes. We've been testing Windows Narrator, VoiceOver, TalkBack, and ChromeVox screen readers to navigate a Flutter web app.
- mwcampbell 6y ago
  So why is FlutterPlasma.dev completely unusable with a screen reader even after pressing the "turn on accessibility" button? I understand that the actual demo presentation might not be accessible, but the intro screen should be fully readable, and it's not. Edit: You may want to add the NVDA open-source screen reader for Windows to your list. And when you test with a screen reader, make sure you use it the way an actual user would when browsing the web, e.g. using NVDA's browse mode with the arrow keys to move through the page.
- marcusjt 6y ago
  NVDA is the primary screen reader for 40.6% of them (swiftly followed by JAWS at 40.1%) so why aren't you testing with it? https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey8/#primary https://webaim.org/projects/screenreadersurvey8/#primary

notretarded 6y ago

>Still relatively early days for Flutter Web Spoken like a true product evangelist. Good palm off with the "create a ticket" too.

kuschku 6y ago

Have you ever tried one of your demos in Firefox on Mobile and Desktop? They're completely unusable in Firefox. For example, it only scrolls 3 pixels per rotation of the scroll wheel on Windows 10

oblio 6y ago
Firefox is on the Google chopping block. They won't admit it but they're killing it by a thousand CSS cuts.
- SanderNL 6y ago
  Why are you guys here on HN still using Chrome? There is literally not a single reason I can think of to be supporting this behemoth that is killing the open web. Firefox is excellent actually and Firebug IMO is far superior to Chrome's offering. I understand non-techies using it like they used Explorer, but come on guys.
  - oblio 6y ago
    Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:85.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/85.0
  - tcit 6y ago
    > Firebug Which year is this ?
    - EvilEy3 6y ago
      The year when Chrome actually threatens open web.

dbjacobs 6y ago

On my iPhone 12 mini the demo took 13 seconds to show me something besides a blank screen. On my desktop it was around 3 seconds and cpu usage went through the roof.

deft 6y ago

No, I won't help you. The OP post is about how great flutter is and you're in the comments telling everyone it will actually be useable soon and asking us to test it for you on common browsers.

sriku 6y ago

Sorry but the plasmadev demo doesn't pass muster compared to 60fps animations we were able to do years ago with html+js. Something about the renderer approach is causing hiccups in the animation. "Buttery smooth animations and scrolling" will be a great selling point for flutter ..if it actually works. (Firefox)

sriku 6y ago
I'd say a goal of "do useful stuff extremely well and complex stuff reasonably well" would make for a good demo.

qbasic_forever 6y ago

The plasma demo you linked runs at a stuttery 40fps on Firefox (ubuntu 20.10) on a quad core Ryzen 5 laptop. The fans immediately spin to max speed. I'm not impressed... Here's a hard question, why is this surprising to you? What are you missing in development--is this a gap in testing? Are you hamstrung without support internally to bake this as long as it needs? Rather than double-down on extolling the virtues here, it's time to double-down on fixing the team and the product.

agucova 6y ago
I got 14 fps with heavy stuttering and freezing with my i5-9300H with 8 cores :(
Jyaif 6y ago
60 fps on a 2016 macbook. Maybe you don't have GPU acceleration enabled?

marcusjt 6y ago

FWIW the plasma demo runs at something like 50fps in Chrome on my 3yr old Samsung Galaxy S9, and only a bit worse in Firefox (perhaps 40fps) - so they are not buttery smooth experiences, but neither are they terrible.

dmitriid 6y ago

> However, we would certainly love to learn more. It's... It's very easy to learn more for yourself. - Ask your company to provide you with a MacBook Air (not the M1, a regular one) or a mid-tier PC - Use any browser other than Chrome (and other thank Blink-based browsers) - Go and use the very same demos you so proudly present Boom. Learning.

EvilEy3 6y ago
Why is this downvoted?

bsimpson 6y ago

Oooff, the edges in that demo look terrible - particularly the grey boxes in perspective. The demo boasts that it isn't a video, but the interpolation looks as bad as one. I hate to be critical - I'm sure a lot of work has gone into this - but there's still lots of room for improvement too.

the_duke 6y ago

As usual for Google products, this works fine in Chrome on a decently powerful desktop. Not up to the speed of well-written Javascript, but definitely viable. In contrast, this is completely unusable on other browsers or on lower powered devices. On Firefox desktop, initial loading brings a "This page seems to be stuck" prompt. Once it finally loads, clicking the play button just does nothing. Please note that for 80+% of websites/apps, Firefox is faster or on par with Chrome for me. Google products and some other exceptions are the only ones that are consistently slow on Firefox. Whether that's intentional or just a lack of testing, I can't say. Similarly unusable on Safari. On lower powered devices this just freezes Chrome for me. As I mentioned in other comments, I like Flutter, but Flutter Web is not anywhere close to being viable for production use.

jpxw 6y ago

flutterplasma.dev just shows a blank screen for me on iOS safari. Every few refreshes I can can get the content to show for a split second before it goes back to white...

EvilEy3 6y ago

> early days > production ready Pick one.