7 ms·

I agree with you to a point. "could I get a better mate" is absolutely true when you can swipe across hundreds of profiles. Where it is not true is that attra

I agree with you to a point. "could I get a better mate" is absolutely true when you can swipe across hundreds of profiles. Where it is not true is that attraction is a multi-dimensional process that is very poorly captured by online dating. Men in particular are disadvantaged by it. This is well studied. The false conclusion to draw is that if you fail at online dating, you will fail at real life dating. This false conclusion stops many young men from even trying in the real world. There are so many dimensions on which attraction is developed that many, many who are currently alone could easily and successfully find partners. It makes me sad. I have absolutely seen 5'4" men who would catastrophically fail in the online dating market meet, date and marry successful, intelligent, kind, beautiful women. I have absolutely seen many nerdy men, goofy men, brown men, asian men succeed effortlessly with women. It all requires real-world interactions though. In the real world, people respond to so many more signals. You have to go out there, meet people, learn and develop yourself. This is the process I encourage my single friends to follow: become the person someone else would be thrilled to meet, proud to befriend, excited to date and overjoyed to marry. But to do so, you must first go out in the real world and make friends. Don't go out with any expectations of getting a date or a hookup. Learn to make friends with a diverse array of people. This is key. Each different type of person will help you learn about yourself. Dating will emerge naturally as you get beter at making friends.

PrefixKitten 6y ago
> become the person someone else would be thrilled to meet, proud to befriend, excited to date and overjoyed to marry. The 3 most recent exes of mine all had begged me to marry them at some point in the relationship. One even offered to buy me a ring and propose. But in the last 6 years I haven't had a single relationship... The enormous contrast in outcome has me totally bewildered.
- quacked 6y ago
  Are you over 30?
quacked 6y ago
I agree with you that attraction is a multi-dimensional process which is very poorly captured by online dating. What I am trying to explain is mine and others' observations that men who don't succeed at present-day online dating , that would have succeeded at real-life dating in the past, are not succeeding today in real life. I am blaming online dating and social media for this phenomena, and attempting to use that rationale as an explanation for why the percent share of sexless men has grown from 18% to 30%, as indicated by the linked study. Have you seen these "conventionally unattractive" men that you describe succeed in a totally open and free dating market as young 20-somethings, or are there extenuating circumstances (early 30s, string of failed relationships, etc.). I will fully admit that you are observing something I am not observing and that my rationale must be flawed if you're witnessing 5'4" nerdy, goofy men lacking in charisma and stature experience consistent success in real life dating between 18-26. Of those I saw who did achieve some success, I've witnessed a lot of them get cheated on by their "girlfriends", but I haven't witnessed a lot of them experience free-market success and dating freedom of choice, at least not compared to the 6' high-power athletes I know. I disagree with you on a few other counts here, but most strongly with the statement "dating will emerge naturally as you get better at making friends". That is patently false. Dating will emerge naturally as the peer-relative superior status of your reproductive and companionship potential becomes obvious. Dating is not a process by which to make friends, it is a process to determine who will have a chance at impregnating whom. "Getting better at making friends" will net you a fraction of the returns that "getting muscles that show through a t-shirt" will, all other things being considered equal. Overall, I do agree with you that men who fail on dating apps need to try different approaches in real life, though.
- testfoobar 6y ago
  There is also the generational drop in testosterone that has been discussed here on HN. This may explain some portion of the rising numbers of men not getting sex. If by open-and-free dating markets of 20-somethings you mean places like bars in the Marina or the party scene of Isla Vista. You are correct, to succeed there you have to be conventionally attractive. In the low light and hormone fueled club scene of Miami, even more so. Status, social proof, money...it matters. But there are many other places to find great partners. My 5'4" friend is a musician. Girls approached him. He has done well over the years. Other successful guys I know sail, scuba-dive, rock-climb, ski, fly, hike, surf, etc. Each of these activities has its own social scene with interesting people. My statement about dating and friends was inaccurate. I actually agree with you: dating =/= friendship. It has been been my observation that my struggling single friends didn't know how to be social. I encouraged them to befriend people and learn about themselves. An example of what I meant by "dating emerges..." my friends who sail will periodically send out open invitations to get 5-10 people together for a day of sailing. The goal is to invite fun interesting people. By being friends with social people, you get exposed to more people. People click in person. Another friend regularly rents big houses for ski weekends - again with the goal of pulling interesting people together. Regarding muscles: agree. Fitness improves everyone's chances in everything. I encourage all of my single friends to be physically active and fit.

PrefixKitten 6y ago

> become the person someone else would be thrilled to meet, proud to befriend, excited to date and overjoyed to marry. The 3 most recent exes of mine all had begged me to marry them at some point in the relationship. One even offered to buy me a ring and propose. But in the last 6 years I haven't had a single relationship... The enormous contrast in outcome has me totally bewildered.

quacked 6y ago
Are you over 30?

quacked 6y ago

I agree with you that attraction is a multi-dimensional process which is very poorly captured by online dating. What I am trying to explain is mine and others' observations that men who don't succeed at present-day online dating , that would have succeeded at real-life dating in the past, are not succeeding today in real life. I am blaming online dating and social media for this phenomena, and attempting to use that rationale as an explanation for why the percent share of sexless men has grown from 18% to 30%, as indicated by the linked study. Have you seen these "conventionally unattractive" men that you describe succeed in a totally open and free dating market as young 20-somethings, or are there extenuating circumstances (early 30s, string of failed relationships, etc.). I will fully admit that you are observing something I am not observing and that my rationale must be flawed if you're witnessing 5'4" nerdy, goofy men lacking in charisma and stature experience consistent success in real life dating between 18-26. Of those I saw who did achieve some success, I've witnessed a lot of them get cheated on by their "girlfriends", but I haven't witnessed a lot of them experience free-market success and dating freedom of choice, at least not compared to the 6' high-power athletes I know. I disagree with you on a few other counts here, but most strongly with the statement "dating will emerge naturally as you get better at making friends". That is patently false. Dating will emerge naturally as the peer-relative superior status of your reproductive and companionship potential becomes obvious. Dating is not a process by which to make friends, it is a process to determine who will have a chance at impregnating whom. "Getting better at making friends" will net you a fraction of the returns that "getting muscles that show through a t-shirt" will, all other things being considered equal. Overall, I do agree with you that men who fail on dating apps need to try different approaches in real life, though.

testfoobar 6y ago
There is also the generational drop in testosterone that has been discussed here on HN. This may explain some portion of the rising numbers of men not getting sex. If by open-and-free dating markets of 20-somethings you mean places like bars in the Marina or the party scene of Isla Vista. You are correct, to succeed there you have to be conventionally attractive. In the low light and hormone fueled club scene of Miami, even more so. Status, social proof, money...it matters. But there are many other places to find great partners. My 5'4" friend is a musician. Girls approached him. He has done well over the years. Other successful guys I know sail, scuba-dive, rock-climb, ski, fly, hike, surf, etc. Each of these activities has its own social scene with interesting people. My statement about dating and friends was inaccurate. I actually agree with you: dating =/= friendship. It has been been my observation that my struggling single friends didn't know how to be social. I encouraged them to befriend people and learn about themselves. An example of what I meant by "dating emerges..." my friends who sail will periodically send out open invitations to get 5-10 people together for a day of sailing. The goal is to invite fun interesting people. By being friends with social people, you get exposed to more people. People click in person. Another friend regularly rents big houses for ski weekends - again with the goal of pulling interesting people together. Regarding muscles: agree. Fitness improves everyone's chances in everything. I encourage all of my single friends to be physically active and fit.