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> There have been Tesla driving around the polar circle for 10 years now. EV are very popular in Norway. EV’s have zero car tax and zero VAT on Norway. That ma

> There have been Tesla driving around the polar circle for 10 years now. EV are very popular in Norway. EV’s have zero car tax and zero VAT on Norway. That makes them cheaper than equivalent gas cars > Yes, and consumers so far have universally rejected PHEV unless massively insentivised to do so. Same with EV’s as shown above. They’re only massively popular if the price is right. It all comes down to it. In Finland PHEV sales are now higher than diesel sales iirc, which used to be super popular here. Due to how car tax works on models like Volvo the PHEV variant is cheaper than the gas variant, hence people select them. We don’t have no VAT like Norway has so BEV’s are still very expensive here. Personally I do like emissions based taxation a lot. No need to complain about people not buying them as they will buy if the price is correct vs alternatives. As a sidenote Toyota has announced an EV. Sure it’s bit after others but not by that much. Also they’re increasing the amount of PHEV’s. As they already have a good hybrid tech one just needs to slap a bigger battery and it’s done. And as batteries weigh a lot the weight of PHEV with it’s ICE and whatnot is around the same as BEV. See Rav4 PHEV as a good example.

nickik 6y ago
> EV’s have zero car tax and zero VAT on Norway. That makes them cheaper than equivalent gas cars My point was that they clearly work fine in the cold. > Same with EV’s as shown above. They’re only massively popular if the price is right. It all comes down to it. No, its not at all the same. Tesla sell a lot in the US even outside of insentives. Often FCEV have the same intensives as EV and still don't sell at all. Sorry I mixed up PHEV and FCEV. Our dicussions is about FCEV but I wrote PHEV, that is just a hybrid with a plug. > Personally I do like emissions based taxation a lot. The problem with that is that emissions from the gird a not always the same, and the same for FCEV. Also, for PHEV the emissions are often understated.
- sharpneli 6y ago
  > No, its not at all the same. Tesla sell a lot in the US even outside of insentives. Not much. This comparison includes apparently also plugin hybrids (So BEV and PHEV combined) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country Out of all new cars 1.9% were plugins in US in 2020 18.1% were plugins in Finland. 74.7% in Norway. And they were not full EV's over here. Only less than 2% is full EV here (which is still more than what's sold in US). The majority is basic family movers like Volkswagen Passats and whatnot that allow daily driving to work with electricity and then for summer cabin one can go with gas. I do understand why consumers are not enthusiastic about them in US. As in some cases it can be cheaper to just go with gas than use electricity. Over here its overwhelmingly cheaper to drive with electricity. As an example the RAV4 PHEV costs around 30-50% to drive using the EV mode instead of fueling using the average price of household electricity here. > Sorry I mixed up PHEV and FCEV. Our dicussions is about FCEV but I wrote PHEV, that is just a hybrid with a plug. Yeah FCEV's have a hard time going forwards. Unlike plug cars that can be charged at home with FCEV the full chicken and egg problem in refueling is there. Perhaps someday, but in general overcoming those problems is really really hard. > Also, for PHEV the emissions are often understated. Yeah. Especially when there is no significant savings with charging. As gas costs closer to $8 per gallon over here actually charging is far more common. It's so much cheaper to drive with the battery than by using gas. It's basically all about economics. Make it cheaper and people will buy. Expensive status symbols only go so far.

nickik 6y ago

> EV’s have zero car tax and zero VAT on Norway. That makes them cheaper than equivalent gas cars My point was that they clearly work fine in the cold. > Same with EV’s as shown above. They’re only massively popular if the price is right. It all comes down to it. No, its not at all the same. Tesla sell a lot in the US even outside of insentives. Often FCEV have the same intensives as EV and still don't sell at all. Sorry I mixed up PHEV and FCEV. Our dicussions is about FCEV but I wrote PHEV, that is just a hybrid with a plug. > Personally I do like emissions based taxation a lot. The problem with that is that emissions from the gird a not always the same, and the same for FCEV. Also, for PHEV the emissions are often understated.

sharpneli 6y ago
> No, its not at all the same. Tesla sell a lot in the US even outside of insentives. Not much. This comparison includes apparently also plugin hybrids (So BEV and PHEV combined) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country Out of all new cars 1.9% were plugins in US in 2020 18.1% were plugins in Finland. 74.7% in Norway. And they were not full EV's over here. Only less than 2% is full EV here (which is still more than what's sold in US). The majority is basic family movers like Volkswagen Passats and whatnot that allow daily driving to work with electricity and then for summer cabin one can go with gas. I do understand why consumers are not enthusiastic about them in US. As in some cases it can be cheaper to just go with gas than use electricity. Over here its overwhelmingly cheaper to drive with electricity. As an example the RAV4 PHEV costs around 30-50% to drive using the EV mode instead of fueling using the average price of household electricity here. > Sorry I mixed up PHEV and FCEV. Our dicussions is about FCEV but I wrote PHEV, that is just a hybrid with a plug. Yeah FCEV's have a hard time going forwards. Unlike plug cars that can be charged at home with FCEV the full chicken and egg problem in refueling is there. Perhaps someday, but in general overcoming those problems is really really hard. > Also, for PHEV the emissions are often understated. Yeah. Especially when there is no significant savings with charging. As gas costs closer to $8 per gallon over here actually charging is far more common. It's so much cheaper to drive with the battery than by using gas. It's basically all about economics. Make it cheaper and people will buy. Expensive status symbols only go so far.