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What? Of course SS and Medicare count. They're taxes. Europeans get pension plans too, and they have universal healthcare, and those services are included in

by jbooth 15y ago

What? Of course SS and Medicare count. They're taxes. Europeans get pension plans too, and they have universal healthcare, and those services are included in the taxes that europeans pay. You just argued "If I take the tax rate, and subtract 15%, I get 28%". That's ridiculous. And, nobody in SS is subsidized by anyone -- those who max out don't pay any more beyond the max.

anamax 15y ago
> What? Of course SS and Medicare count. They're taxes. I pay the City of San Jose for garbage services - is that a tax? Of course not. SS isn't a tax because the benefits are (roughly) in proportion to what you pay? > And, nobody in SS is subsidized by anyone -- those who max out don't pay any more beyond the max. Do you really misunderstand this or are you just being annoying? For low-income/low-contribution folks, the ROI for their SS "contributions" is positive. The ROI for high-income/high-contribution folks is negative. The positive return for the low-income folks is the money that the high-income folks lose. On the off-chance that you think that SS problems can be solved by removing the cap, I'll explain why SS advocates introduced it. They wanted a system that had popular support and didn't encourage organized opposition. For popular support, they wanted to cap payouts. To avoid organized opposition, they wanted roughly proportional payouts. If you want uncapped contributions, do you want uncapped payouts? If so, you get to explain why Ross Perot gets $300k/year. If not, you get to defend a program that is a significant tax on folks who are very good at fighting taxes.
- jbooth 15y ago
  Ok, well go do some accounting on the dutch government, figure what % of their tax take goes to pensions and medical stuff, deduct that from their tax take and you can get back to me with an apples-to-apples comparison. Since those aren't really taxes. I didn't say anything about uncapping SS. And I know my history, thanks.

by jbooth 15y ago

anamax 15y ago

> What? Of course SS and Medicare count. They're taxes. I pay the City of San Jose for garbage services - is that a tax? Of course not. SS isn't a tax because the benefits are (roughly) in proportion to what you pay? > And, nobody in SS is subsidized by anyone -- those who max out don't pay any more beyond the max. Do you really misunderstand this or are you just being annoying? For low-income/low-contribution folks, the ROI for their SS "contributions" is positive. The ROI for high-income/high-contribution folks is negative. The positive return for the low-income folks is the money that the high-income folks lose. On the off-chance that you think that SS problems can be solved by removing the cap, I'll explain why SS advocates introduced it. They wanted a system that had popular support and didn't encourage organized opposition. For popular support, they wanted to cap payouts. To avoid organized opposition, they wanted roughly proportional payouts. If you want uncapped contributions, do you want uncapped payouts? If so, you get to explain why Ross Perot gets $300k/year. If not, you get to defend a program that is a significant tax on folks who are very good at fighting taxes.

jbooth 15y ago
Ok, well go do some accounting on the dutch government, figure what % of their tax take goes to pensions and medical stuff, deduct that from their tax take and you can get back to me with an apples-to-apples comparison. Since those aren't really taxes. I didn't say anything about uncapping SS. And I know my history, thanks.