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DDG makes me nervous because I don’t actually understand their business model. Which isn’t to say they don’t have a well-known and viable one but I haven’t pers

by mokus 6y ago

DDG makes me nervous because I don’t actually understand their business model. Which isn’t to say they don’t have a well-known and viable one but I haven’t personally looked into it and as a result my gut feeling is that they are probably not an exception to this. I use them anyway because they at least claim to be private and haven’t yet given me specific reason to doubt it. I probably should at some point take the time, though, to try to actually understand how they can viably exist in a way that isn’t going to succumb to the same corrupting incentives as google.

prox 6y ago
DDG does have ads, but with a limited scope, your search patterns are only used for a limited time.
ehsankia 6y ago
Don't they have ads? In reality, tracking doesn't do much when it specifically comes to search engine ads, since the user is literally giving you their intent in the search query itself. Tracking is more useful for showing ads as you browse the web in general. DDG can do effective search ads without any actual tracking, and that's their business model, which is very similar to Google Search.
skinkestek 6y ago
Their business model is simple: - build a useable search engine - show ads to users User acquisition is based on word of mouth and a bit of guerrilla marketing: they are a search engine with decent quality that doesn't spy on you. Not spying and not selling tracking data to others cost them some opportunities but gives them "free" users that would otherwise have stayed with Google. The last few years Google has been busily lowering their quality so even if DDG haven't improved much they feel very close to Google these days. (Also, retrying in Google takes 2 seconds from DDG, while retrying in DDG after trying in Google first takes 15 seconds and more thinking.)
- anchpop 6y ago
  My worry with that business model is that people concerned about privacy enough to switch to DDG probably are really likely to use adblock
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    My worry is that if they ever achieved a dominant, Google-like position in the marketplace, that they would eventually lapse and go for greed. Even if the current DDG leadership is principled in this respect, companies go through turnover. Can't be evil > don't be evil.
    - skinkestek 6y ago
      If/when that happen the HN crowd should look at it as a business opportunity. I can be an early customer.
    - ConceptJunkie 6y ago
      Given that Google owns that position, and is being evil in order to maintain it, that is very, very unlikely. I'll stick with DDG and take that risk.
  - idrios 6y ago
    If it ever leaked that DDG was tracking user data, they would lose their only competitive advantage and lose all their users
  - jasonv 6y ago
    Personally, I don’t mind an ad or two. It’s not ads, per se, that have me using an ad blocker... it’s the “bad UI impact of tons of ads and pop-ups” that keep me in ad block mode. When a site wants me to turn off the ad blocker and it doesn’t look insane, I’m happy to comply. Same with DDG.
  - frosted-flakes 6y ago
    DDG lets you turn off their ads in their own settings, so I don't think they're worried about it.
boogies 6y ago
As others have mentioned, they run ads — based on the search query of the page they appear on. They also (not unlike Brave) participate in affiliate programs. They get referral commissions when they funnel people to Amazon or eBay, whether through their shopping carousels or through !bangs. > use them anyway because they at least claim to be private Me too, at least there's probably some chance they get sued if they’re as terrible as Google. But > haven’t yet given me specific reason to doubt it I do doubt they’re as private as they could be, because they act a lot like I imagine a honeypot does, hide their source code, and have had serious past privacy problems in other products (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23708166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23708166 ‘We’re not collecting your info, our servers are receiving it but just trust us we just throw it away’).

by mokus 6y ago

prox 6y ago

DDG does have ads, but with a limited scope, your search patterns are only used for a limited time.

ehsankia 6y ago

Don't they have ads? In reality, tracking doesn't do much when it specifically comes to search engine ads, since the user is literally giving you their intent in the search query itself. Tracking is more useful for showing ads as you browse the web in general. DDG can do effective search ads without any actual tracking, and that's their business model, which is very similar to Google Search.

skinkestek 6y ago

Their business model is simple: - build a useable search engine - show ads to users User acquisition is based on word of mouth and a bit of guerrilla marketing: they are a search engine with decent quality that doesn't spy on you. Not spying and not selling tracking data to others cost them some opportunities but gives them "free" users that would otherwise have stayed with Google. The last few years Google has been busily lowering their quality so even if DDG haven't improved much they feel very close to Google these days. (Also, retrying in Google takes 2 seconds from DDG, while retrying in DDG after trying in Google first takes 15 seconds and more thinking.)

anchpop 6y ago
My worry with that business model is that people concerned about privacy enough to switch to DDG probably are really likely to use adblock
- chrisco255 6y ago
  My worry is that if they ever achieved a dominant, Google-like position in the marketplace, that they would eventually lapse and go for greed. Even if the current DDG leadership is principled in this respect, companies go through turnover. Can't be evil > don't be evil.
  - skinkestek 6y ago
    If/when that happen the HN crowd should look at it as a business opportunity. I can be an early customer.
  - ConceptJunkie 6y ago
    Given that Google owns that position, and is being evil in order to maintain it, that is very, very unlikely. I'll stick with DDG and take that risk.
- idrios 6y ago
  If it ever leaked that DDG was tracking user data, they would lose their only competitive advantage and lose all their users
- jasonv 6y ago
  Personally, I don’t mind an ad or two. It’s not ads, per se, that have me using an ad blocker... it’s the “bad UI impact of tons of ads and pop-ups” that keep me in ad block mode. When a site wants me to turn off the ad blocker and it doesn’t look insane, I’m happy to comply. Same with DDG.
- frosted-flakes 6y ago
  DDG lets you turn off their ads in their own settings, so I don't think they're worried about it.

boogies 6y ago

As others have mentioned, they run ads — based on the search query of the page they appear on. They also (not unlike Brave) participate in affiliate programs. They get referral commissions when they funnel people to Amazon or eBay, whether through their shopping carousels or through !bangs. > use them anyway because they at least claim to be private Me too, at least there's probably some chance they get sued if they’re as terrible as Google. But > haven’t yet given me specific reason to doubt it I do doubt they’re as private as they could be, because they act a lot like I imagine a honeypot does, hide their source code, and have had serious past privacy problems in other products (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23708166 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23708166 ‘We’re not collecting your info, our servers are receiving it but just trust us we just throw it away’).