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> please don't use this software to file your taxes for the 2020 / 2021 tax season. I wonder if there is a PR that Intuit filed to add this to the readme. Ser

by xrd 6y ago

> please don't use this software to file your taxes for the 2020 / 2021 tax season. I wonder if there is a PR that Intuit filed to add this to the readme. Seriously, I wonder how much money Intuit has spent to terrify people into using their software. Each year, I look around for alternatives so I can avoid giving them money, and each year I find some reason to grow fearful of an IRS audit and go with the company that has convinced me they are less risky than anything else. I wonder if that is truth, or if I've been programmed to think that.

simplerman 6y ago
Most people without businesses don't need to worry about audits. IRS, of course, still audit a small percentage of the most simple and honest-looking returns. But that is mostly for how factories spot check products to ensure quality, not because they suspect you did something wrong. On other hand, if you are audited, it is not a big deal as long as you were not intentionally defrauding IRS. My boss used to get audited almost every year for his business. IRS would ask for receipts, and once he provided those, it was end of story.
glial 6y ago
I have used TaxAct successfully for the last several years and they're great. (just a happy customer)
- bluGill 6y ago
  I've been using TaxAct for years, but I'm not sure they are better. They have every incentive to lobby with TurboTax to make sure it is hard to file taxes without help. I'm tempted to go back to paper forms. It wasn't hard, just annoying the one time I forgot to copy line 13 of form 1234 to line 43d of form 5678 and then had to amend my state filings.
  - glial 6y ago
    Yeah, truthfully I would rather not have to use TaxAct either. Since the IRS already knows what I owe, what's the point of filling out forms by hand? Every year when I manually copy information from my W2 onto an online form, I think that tax season must be the biggest data entry clusterfuck in the world.
    - JoshTriplett 6y ago
      > Since the IRS already knows what I owe, what's the point of filling out forms by hand? Complete agreement, though there will in some cases be a need to file forms to supply information that they don't already have. Additional deductions, for instance: charitable contributions, deductible expenses, etc. But those forms should be "here's the information", not "here's the information and a pile of careful calculations implementing an algorithm".
- StillBored 6y ago
  It holds your hand a lot less than taxcut or turbotax though. Its basically a very thin shim on top of the IRS forms and instructions. Other than the electronic filing and a couple pretty basic hints, once you have some history and are vaguely aware of tax credits for various things, its barely easier than the IRS instructions in the old paper tax forms. I tend to use taxcut, which is a bit closer to turbotax, but frankly its messed up things that I only found by reading a paper copy of the return before filing and noticing numbers that didn't make sense (doubling values by adding imported values with hand entered ones, that kind of thing). I had problems like that with turbotax in the 1990's but haven't used it since the bootloader fiasco.
Retric 6y ago
Most people have minimal to fear from an audit. If your taxes are complex enough that you’re concerned then use a professional not TurboTax.
- natex 6y ago
  I have used TurboTax pretty much my entire working life and never have been audited. The one time I decided to use a professional due to "complex" tax issues that year, I was audited, which became a huge pain in the ass.
coldpie 6y ago
Unless you really screw up[1], or are intentionally trying to screw the IRS[2], you don't have to worry about an audit. The IRS's goal isn't to bring down their wrath upon you, their goal is to accurately collect the taxes they are due. If you pay too little, they'll ask you to pay the difference. If you pay too much, they'll refund it. Really: I once used the single-payer tax table instead of the filing-jointly tax table, and they sent me a nice letter explaining my error alongside a big check. [1] http://achewood.com/index.php?date=02102004 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=02102004 [2] http://achewood.com/index.php?date=02272003 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=02272003
- numpad0 6y ago
  I wonder if someone could FOIA their audit software stack and put that up on GitHub and Docker Hub
  - edoceo 6y ago
    Generally no. Data you get from FOIA requests is generally limited with what you can do with it. State specific laws, your use-case not withstanding
    - EvanAnderson 6y ago
      The IRS is a US federal agency, though. They can claim no copyright on the code. It should be be public domain.
      - vharuck 6y ago
        Unless it was written by a contractor who then gave the copyright to the IRS. This is a very common situation. The federal government is not barred from having copyrights.
        EvanAnderson 6y ago
        That would be a fun legal rabbit hole to descend into.
chrisseaton 6y ago
> Each year, I look around for alternatives so I can avoid giving them money Why not pay an accountant? Why is everyone trying to do their own taxes? By the time you've spent a couple of hours looking for alternatives... you might as well have just paid a professional to do it!
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  It’s pretty simple to do your own taxes unless you have your own business and partnerships and whatnot. Spend a couple hours reading the instructions, use the IRS free fillable forms website, and you do it once and every year after it’s quick and easy. Things don’t change much year to year. If you don’t understand, post a question a personal finance forum and someone will pipe in with an answer.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > It’s pretty simple to do your own taxes So why do people complain about it so much? To the point where they're writing their own custom software (?!) to do it?
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Mostly because it's an unpleasant task that can involve large sums of money if you put things in the wrong boxes. And even relatively straightforward brokerage accounts and second income sources start cranking up the complexity in a hurry.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        I don’t find that to be true about brokerages. I have 4 different brokerages, and each one sends a well labeled 1099-B/DIV/INT. Non W-2 or 1099 incomes with various deductions get things complicated though, and I would punt that to an accountant.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I don’t know. But if you’ve opened up the IRS free fillable forms website, and put up the accompanying instructions on your second monitor, and know how to read English, I don’t see how it’s difficult, if you’re income is from a W-2. Everything is kind of labeled and laid out for you.
yaomtc 6y ago
That software looks to be worked on primarily by two people in their spare time, spread out over a year, with most of the activity happening within the last couple months if I'm reading this correctly. Understandable that they still consider it to be in an early stage, and not ready for use by the public.
michaelmior 6y ago
I've never really been fearful of an audit. I just assume that if I DIY, I'm likely missing out on refunds I should have gotten because I didn't know where to look.
snikeris 6y ago
I use this: https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form... If you’re reading Hacker News, you can probably figure it out.

by xrd 6y ago

simplerman 6y ago

Most people without businesses don't need to worry about audits. IRS, of course, still audit a small percentage of the most simple and honest-looking returns. But that is mostly for how factories spot check products to ensure quality, not because they suspect you did something wrong. On other hand, if you are audited, it is not a big deal as long as you were not intentionally defrauding IRS. My boss used to get audited almost every year for his business. IRS would ask for receipts, and once he provided those, it was end of story.

glial 6y ago

I have used TaxAct successfully for the last several years and they're great. (just a happy customer)

bluGill 6y ago
I've been using TaxAct for years, but I'm not sure they are better. They have every incentive to lobby with TurboTax to make sure it is hard to file taxes without help. I'm tempted to go back to paper forms. It wasn't hard, just annoying the one time I forgot to copy line 13 of form 1234 to line 43d of form 5678 and then had to amend my state filings.
- glial 6y ago
  Yeah, truthfully I would rather not have to use TaxAct either. Since the IRS already knows what I owe, what's the point of filling out forms by hand? Every year when I manually copy information from my W2 onto an online form, I think that tax season must be the biggest data entry clusterfuck in the world.
  - JoshTriplett 6y ago
    > Since the IRS already knows what I owe, what's the point of filling out forms by hand? Complete agreement, though there will in some cases be a need to file forms to supply information that they don't already have. Additional deductions, for instance: charitable contributions, deductible expenses, etc. But those forms should be "here's the information", not "here's the information and a pile of careful calculations implementing an algorithm".
StillBored 6y ago
It holds your hand a lot less than taxcut or turbotax though. Its basically a very thin shim on top of the IRS forms and instructions. Other than the electronic filing and a couple pretty basic hints, once you have some history and are vaguely aware of tax credits for various things, its barely easier than the IRS instructions in the old paper tax forms. I tend to use taxcut, which is a bit closer to turbotax, but frankly its messed up things that I only found by reading a paper copy of the return before filing and noticing numbers that didn't make sense (doubling values by adding imported values with hand entered ones, that kind of thing). I had problems like that with turbotax in the 1990's but haven't used it since the bootloader fiasco.

Retric 6y ago

Most people have minimal to fear from an audit. If your taxes are complex enough that you’re concerned then use a professional not TurboTax.

natex 6y ago
I have used TurboTax pretty much my entire working life and never have been audited. The one time I decided to use a professional due to "complex" tax issues that year, I was audited, which became a huge pain in the ass.

coldpie 6y ago

Unless you really screw up[1], or are intentionally trying to screw the IRS[2], you don't have to worry about an audit. The IRS's goal isn't to bring down their wrath upon you, their goal is to accurately collect the taxes they are due. If you pay too little, they'll ask you to pay the difference. If you pay too much, they'll refund it. Really: I once used the single-payer tax table instead of the filing-jointly tax table, and they sent me a nice letter explaining my error alongside a big check. [1] http://achewood.com/index.php?date=02102004 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=02102004 [2] http://achewood.com/index.php?date=02272003 http://achewood.com/index.php?date=02272003

numpad0 6y ago
I wonder if someone could FOIA their audit software stack and put that up on GitHub and Docker Hub
- edoceo 6y ago
  Generally no. Data you get from FOIA requests is generally limited with what you can do with it. State specific laws, your use-case not withstanding
  - EvanAnderson 6y ago
    The IRS is a US federal agency, though. They can claim no copyright on the code. It should be be public domain.
    - vharuck 6y ago
      Unless it was written by a contractor who then gave the copyright to the IRS. This is a very common situation. The federal government is not barred from having copyrights.
      - EvanAnderson 6y ago
        That would be a fun legal rabbit hole to descend into.

chrisseaton 6y ago

> Each year, I look around for alternatives so I can avoid giving them money Why not pay an accountant? Why is everyone trying to do their own taxes? By the time you've spent a couple of hours looking for alternatives... you might as well have just paid a professional to do it!

lotsofpulp 6y ago
It’s pretty simple to do your own taxes unless you have your own business and partnerships and whatnot. Spend a couple hours reading the instructions, use the IRS free fillable forms website, and you do it once and every year after it’s quick and easy. Things don’t change much year to year. If you don’t understand, post a question a personal finance forum and someone will pipe in with an answer.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > It’s pretty simple to do your own taxes So why do people complain about it so much? To the point where they're writing their own custom software (?!) to do it?
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Mostly because it's an unpleasant task that can involve large sums of money if you put things in the wrong boxes. And even relatively straightforward brokerage accounts and second income sources start cranking up the complexity in a hurry.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      I don’t find that to be true about brokerages. I have 4 different brokerages, and each one sends a well labeled 1099-B/DIV/INT. Non W-2 or 1099 incomes with various deductions get things complicated though, and I would punt that to an accountant.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I don’t know. But if you’ve opened up the IRS free fillable forms website, and put up the accompanying instructions on your second monitor, and know how to read English, I don’t see how it’s difficult, if you’re income is from a W-2. Everything is kind of labeled and laid out for you.

yaomtc 6y ago

That software looks to be worked on primarily by two people in their spare time, spread out over a year, with most of the activity happening within the last couple months if I'm reading this correctly. Understandable that they still consider it to be in an early stage, and not ready for use by the public.

michaelmior 6y ago

I've never really been fearful of an audit. I just assume that if I DIY, I'm likely missing out on refunds I should have gotten because I didn't know where to look.

snikeris 6y ago

I use this: https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form... If you’re reading Hacker News, you can probably figure it out.