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What exactly does everyone have against Turbotax? I use it every year and I love it. Sure I could save a hundred bucks and spend hours filling out IRS worksheet

What exactly does everyone have against Turbotax? I use it every year and I love it. Sure I could save a hundred bucks and spend hours filling out IRS worksheets, but I don't want to. They have excellent UX, and serve as a reliable secure cloud repository for all of my financial information. What's the big deal?

toomuchtodo 6y ago
You're paying for a service that should be provided for free by the IRS, as happens in many other developed countries. It's unnecessary financial drag on the economy.
- aphextron 6y ago
  >You're paying for a service that should be provided for free by the IRS, as happens in many other developed countries. But Turbotax is free for 1040EZ filers. It's only in an instance where you would otherwise just hire a tax accountant that they charge you. In terms of SAAS pricing, it comes out to like $15/month annualized. It's a bargain IMO.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    It's unacceptable to argue that it should be free for some, but not for everyone. It's not a bargain, it's unnecessary regulatory capture, for what my government should be providing at no cost to all citizens who are required to file returns. Private electronic tax filing systems (and the fees they charge) should not exist.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    I believe they also use dark patterns to direct people towards the paid version even if the free one would be fine for your needs.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    >It's only in an instance where you would otherwise just hire a tax accountant that they charge you. This is false. There's no need for 90% of people to hire an accountant to file their state tax return, for which Intuit charges.
  - Kalium 6y ago
    > It's only in an instance where you would otherwise just hire a tax accountant that they charge you. This is false. It's plenty possible to be in neither scenario, and every year millions of Americans are. Further, the 1040EZ system no longer exists. Tax filers often charge for "tax accountant" services like having a moderate income or filing state taxes.
  - dcist 6y ago
    Not true. If you have any capital markets gains, you have to pay TurboTax. I don't need a tax accountant to report simple capital gains. If you have side hustle income, you have to pay TurboTax. Basically, if you're reporting any income other than your standard day job, you have to pay. And TurboTax has done things like advertising free filing but only offering free federal filing and finding out you have to pay for state filing only after you've filled out your federal forms. It's just a scammy business that relies on lobbying and governmental pressure to stay afloat.
  - germinalphrase 6y ago
    > But Turbotax is free for 1040EZ filers. It's only in an instance where you would otherwise just hire a tax accountant that they charge you. This is incorrect in practice. Through dark patterns and otherwise, an extremely small minority filing without paying even if they should be “eligible” (which is itself an absurd position).
germinalphrase 6y ago
The big deal is that all the functionality of TurboTax could/should be available for free (as is done - in some form - in other countries).
- aphextron 6y ago
  And we all know how wonderful and easy to use government built software is.
  - cratermoon 6y ago
    > government built software You mean like the Internet?
  - germinalphrase 6y ago
    That Americans self sabotage (and ignore obvious counter examples) doesn’t change the fact that filing taxes can and should be simplified and made less costly to the average citizen.
    - germinalphrase 6y ago
      Further: I rely on “government services” every day that are essential and delivered reliably. Even on the tech front - my municipal parking app is fast, free, and pretty much flawless.
  - jounker 6y ago
    Who even said it would be software. In Germany I have the option of letting the government do my taxes for me. At the end of the year I can choose to dispute the charges.
mattwad 6y ago
Filing taxes should be much simpler and free for everyone, but they lobby the government to prevent that, among other things. Quick Google search result: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f....
- tootie 6y ago
  For one, I don't blame a company for lobbying for their interests. Lobbying is protected by the first amendment. Congress has sole authority to author and vote on legislation at the pleasure of the electorate. The fact that TT (and H&R Block) have impressed upon reps that they will participate in Free File, it mitigates their need to make a government-sponsored program. Which isn't just barricaded by simply force of will, but rather that the IRS would actually have to do it which means likely means a giant appropriation of funds and the risk of them screwing it up.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    I do blame companies (and people who work at those companies) for spending their time trying to figure out how to waste as much of their fellow countryman's time and money as possible every year. Just like I would blame people for trying to get away with legally polluting waterways or any other public resource. >The fact that TT (and H&R Block) have impressed upon reps that they will participate in Free File, it mitigates their need to make a government-sponsored program. It's a half assed solution so they can say they did something and give them political cover.
  - baumandm 6y ago
    The issue isn't the lobbying per se, but rather that it's not hard to look at the situation and conclude that Congress is favoring the interests of TurboTax over the interests of their constituents. It's difficult for me to believe that my representatives actually believe it's in my best interest to pay TurboTax $100 every year, compared to having the IRS automatically file my taxes. On the other hard, it's easy to believe that my representatives have been cheaply bought with political donations.
coldpie 6y ago
Because the IRS should do it for you, for free, but doesn't because TurboTax uses the money you pay them to sponsor legislation to prevent the IRS from doing that: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...
endisneigh 6y ago
They lobby to make taxes complicated and to prevent the government from doing part of what you’re currently paying for, for free.
coldcode 6y ago
In some countries the government calculates the (simple compared to US) taxes and all you do is approve it. That would be possible here too for most people, but neither politicians (of various stripes) or Intuit wants anything to change. Only the US turns paying taxes into the equivalent of Quantum Mechanics.
- yoz-y 6y ago
  France has a notoriously complex taxation system and yet somehow manages to pre-file it for almost everybody.
dcist 6y ago
Read this ProPublica story on how TurboTax has lobbied for 20 years to prevent people from filing for free easily: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...
coherentpony 6y ago
I'll actually give a response that is not Turbotax specific. The forms I get every year from the ~10 banks I have accounts with and the ~2 companies I earned a salary from are essentially just copies of forms that they also had to send to the IRS. So in principle the IRS already has the same information I do when it comes to how much tax I paid and on what income. It is not clear to me why I have to share: - My name - My address - My _social security number_ - My spouse's name - The names of my children - All their social security numbers, too - How much money I made with a for-profit company. This is information that the IRS already has. To me, this is totally unnecessary. I would much rather the government increase the IRS's budget so that they can implement services that provide any help I might need directly, rather than through a totally unrelated corporation. The IRS's job is to make sure you paid the tax you owed. They don't dictate how much tax you pay. I truly believe that with the right financial resources they can make it easier to make that payment (and correctly) for: 1) us; and 2) them. For folks with very simple tax situations, this seems like a no-brainer. For folks with complicated situations, you are still more than welcome to talk to a tax professional for advice. But a company _doing your taxes_ for you seems unnecessary. Wouldn't it be lovely if instead I went to www.irs.gov to file my taxes, and I was presented with a very similar interface to what for-profit companies are providing, but with the information already filled out because they already have it? Essentially, all I'd be doing is sanity-checking the inputs.
- d1zzy 6y ago
  Don't share any of that, use the desktop/standalone version.
klmadfejno 6y ago
Last year turbo tax said I could file for free. Every so often it asked if I wanted to upgrade to a deluxe version for $70. I said no. After a couple hours of filling everything out, it told me that my income, from one of the first steps, was too high so I would need to pay $70. Deeply unethical to tell me that at the end when they had the information necessary to do so at the beginning. Also, fuck them for charging $70 while lobbying for taxes to remain difficult to file.

toomuchtodo 6y ago

You're paying for a service that should be provided for free by the IRS, as happens in many other developed countries. It's unnecessary financial drag on the economy.

aphextron 6y ago
>You're paying for a service that should be provided for free by the IRS, as happens in many other developed countries. But Turbotax is free for 1040EZ filers. It's only in an instance where you would otherwise just hire a tax accountant that they charge you. In terms of SAAS pricing, it comes out to like $15/month annualized. It's a bargain IMO.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  It's unacceptable to argue that it should be free for some, but not for everyone. It's not a bargain, it's unnecessary regulatory capture, for what my government should be providing at no cost to all citizens who are required to file returns. Private electronic tax filing systems (and the fees they charge) should not exist.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  I believe they also use dark patterns to direct people towards the paid version even if the free one would be fine for your needs.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  >It's only in an instance where you would otherwise just hire a tax accountant that they charge you. This is false. There's no need for 90% of people to hire an accountant to file their state tax return, for which Intuit charges.
- Kalium 6y ago
  > It's only in an instance where you would otherwise just hire a tax accountant that they charge you. This is false. It's plenty possible to be in neither scenario, and every year millions of Americans are. Further, the 1040EZ system no longer exists. Tax filers often charge for "tax accountant" services like having a moderate income or filing state taxes.
- dcist 6y ago
  Not true. If you have any capital markets gains, you have to pay TurboTax. I don't need a tax accountant to report simple capital gains. If you have side hustle income, you have to pay TurboTax. Basically, if you're reporting any income other than your standard day job, you have to pay. And TurboTax has done things like advertising free filing but only offering free federal filing and finding out you have to pay for state filing only after you've filled out your federal forms. It's just a scammy business that relies on lobbying and governmental pressure to stay afloat.
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  > But Turbotax is free for 1040EZ filers. It's only in an instance where you would otherwise just hire a tax accountant that they charge you. This is incorrect in practice. Through dark patterns and otherwise, an extremely small minority filing without paying even if they should be “eligible” (which is itself an absurd position).

germinalphrase 6y ago

The big deal is that all the functionality of TurboTax could/should be available for free (as is done - in some form - in other countries).

aphextron 6y ago
And we all know how wonderful and easy to use government built software is.
- cratermoon 6y ago
  > government built software You mean like the Internet?
- germinalphrase 6y ago
  That Americans self sabotage (and ignore obvious counter examples) doesn’t change the fact that filing taxes can and should be simplified and made less costly to the average citizen.
  - germinalphrase 6y ago
    Further: I rely on “government services” every day that are essential and delivered reliably. Even on the tech front - my municipal parking app is fast, free, and pretty much flawless.
- jounker 6y ago
  Who even said it would be software. In Germany I have the option of letting the government do my taxes for me. At the end of the year I can choose to dispute the charges.

mattwad 6y ago

Filing taxes should be much simpler and free for everyone, but they lobby the government to prevent that, among other things. Quick Google search result: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f....

tootie 6y ago
For one, I don't blame a company for lobbying for their interests. Lobbying is protected by the first amendment. Congress has sole authority to author and vote on legislation at the pleasure of the electorate. The fact that TT (and H&R Block) have impressed upon reps that they will participate in Free File, it mitigates their need to make a government-sponsored program. Which isn't just barricaded by simply force of will, but rather that the IRS would actually have to do it which means likely means a giant appropriation of funds and the risk of them screwing it up.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  I do blame companies (and people who work at those companies) for spending their time trying to figure out how to waste as much of their fellow countryman's time and money as possible every year. Just like I would blame people for trying to get away with legally polluting waterways or any other public resource. >The fact that TT (and H&R Block) have impressed upon reps that they will participate in Free File, it mitigates their need to make a government-sponsored program. It's a half assed solution so they can say they did something and give them political cover.
- baumandm 6y ago
  The issue isn't the lobbying per se, but rather that it's not hard to look at the situation and conclude that Congress is favoring the interests of TurboTax over the interests of their constituents. It's difficult for me to believe that my representatives actually believe it's in my best interest to pay TurboTax $100 every year, compared to having the IRS automatically file my taxes. On the other hard, it's easy to believe that my representatives have been cheaply bought with political donations.

coldpie 6y ago

Because the IRS should do it for you, for free, but doesn't because TurboTax uses the money you pay them to sponsor legislation to prevent the IRS from doing that: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...

endisneigh 6y ago

They lobby to make taxes complicated and to prevent the government from doing part of what you’re currently paying for, for free.

coldcode 6y ago

In some countries the government calculates the (simple compared to US) taxes and all you do is approve it. That would be possible here too for most people, but neither politicians (of various stripes) or Intuit wants anything to change. Only the US turns paying taxes into the equivalent of Quantum Mechanics.

yoz-y 6y ago
France has a notoriously complex taxation system and yet somehow manages to pre-file it for almost everybody.

dcist 6y ago

Read this ProPublica story on how TurboTax has lobbied for 20 years to prevent people from filing for free easily: https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...

coherentpony 6y ago

I'll actually give a response that is not Turbotax specific. The forms I get every year from the ~10 banks I have accounts with and the ~2 companies I earned a salary from are essentially just copies of forms that they also had to send to the IRS. So in principle the IRS already has the same information I do when it comes to how much tax I paid and on what income. It is not clear to me why I have to share: - My name - My address - My _social security number_ - My spouse's name - The names of my children - All their social security numbers, too - How much money I made with a for-profit company. This is information that the IRS already has. To me, this is totally unnecessary. I would much rather the government increase the IRS's budget so that they can implement services that provide any help I might need directly, rather than through a totally unrelated corporation. The IRS's job is to make sure you paid the tax you owed. They don't dictate how much tax you pay. I truly believe that with the right financial resources they can make it easier to make that payment (and correctly) for: 1) us; and 2) them. For folks with very simple tax situations, this seems like a no-brainer. For folks with complicated situations, you are still more than welcome to talk to a tax professional for advice. But a company _doing your taxes_ for you seems unnecessary. Wouldn't it be lovely if instead I went to www.irs.gov to file my taxes, and I was presented with a very similar interface to what for-profit companies are providing, but with the information already filled out because they already have it? Essentially, all I'd be doing is sanity-checking the inputs.

d1zzy 6y ago
Don't share any of that, use the desktop/standalone version.

klmadfejno 6y ago

Last year turbo tax said I could file for free. Every so often it asked if I wanted to upgrade to a deluxe version for $70. I said no. After a couple hours of filling everything out, it told me that my income, from one of the first steps, was too high so I would need to pay $70. Deeply unethical to tell me that at the end when they had the information necessary to do so at the beginning. Also, fuck them for charging $70 while lobbying for taxes to remain difficult to file.