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I’m not a historian but aren’t those tightly controlled cultural practices a relatively modern invention? Certainly the ancients were known to have orgies (pres

I’m not a historian but aren’t those tightly controlled cultural practices a relatively modern invention? Certainly the ancients were known to have orgies (presumably for fun). People have observed how the 20th century was for many people a return to their “true” nature (eg free love, drugs, rave parties). Maybe it’s just always been true that, when their wealth/resources allow for it, people like to have sex for fun.

ceilingcorner 6y ago
The ancients had orgies as a part of religious mystery cults. Those weren’t widespread to the level that Tinder is today. The birth control pill also enabled many of these attitudes, so it almost by definition wasn’t a return to their “true nature.” But yes of course people like having sex. What’s new is that this pleasure-focused view of it has become the dominant one, to the exclusion of all others.
- whaaswijk 6y ago
  I was pushing back to your assertion that viewing sex as entertainment is primarily a modern and western viewpoint. Certainly the west’s view of sex has changed in the past 100 years. However I would not be surprised if the current view is actually more in line with historical attitudes toward sex, not less.
watwut 6y ago
Afaik, no. Before contraception, sex meant babies. Babies meant someone to feed and work for. Kids were always an expense for years, it takes at least 7-8 years till they sorta kinda can earn for themselves. Traditional cultures would do a lot to control the sex of their unmarried daughters, because that would mean babies to care for and that means a lot of additional troubles.
- imbnwa 6y ago
  Urban human cultures are another story however, because of the near-ubiquitous practice of slavery for most of urban human history.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Slavery may imply rape, but it does not imply the casual for fun consensual sex we are talking about here. Also, slavery is somehow tied to urban? Does not ring true to me.
    - imbnwa 6y ago
      Yes, mispoke scoping strictly to urban cultures, truly wherever you have agricultural practices that grant abundance really, since subsistence living makes keeping extra mouths to feed around a much greater burden.

ceilingcorner 6y ago

The ancients had orgies as a part of religious mystery cults. Those weren’t widespread to the level that Tinder is today. The birth control pill also enabled many of these attitudes, so it almost by definition wasn’t a return to their “true nature.” But yes of course people like having sex. What’s new is that this pleasure-focused view of it has become the dominant one, to the exclusion of all others.

whaaswijk 6y ago
I was pushing back to your assertion that viewing sex as entertainment is primarily a modern and western viewpoint. Certainly the west’s view of sex has changed in the past 100 years. However I would not be surprised if the current view is actually more in line with historical attitudes toward sex, not less.

watwut 6y ago

Afaik, no. Before contraception, sex meant babies. Babies meant someone to feed and work for. Kids were always an expense for years, it takes at least 7-8 years till they sorta kinda can earn for themselves. Traditional cultures would do a lot to control the sex of their unmarried daughters, because that would mean babies to care for and that means a lot of additional troubles.

imbnwa 6y ago
Urban human cultures are another story however, because of the near-ubiquitous practice of slavery for most of urban human history.
- watwut 6y ago
  Slavery may imply rape, but it does not imply the casual for fun consensual sex we are talking about here. Also, slavery is somehow tied to urban? Does not ring true to me.
  - imbnwa 6y ago
    Yes, mispoke scoping strictly to urban cultures, truly wherever you have agricultural practices that grant abundance really, since subsistence living makes keeping extra mouths to feed around a much greater burden.