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> It’s difficult to conceive of the internet we know today — with information on every topic, in every language, at the fingertips of billions of people — witho

> It’s difficult to conceive of the internet we know today — with information on every topic, in every language, at the fingertips of billions of people — without advertising as its economic foundation What’s difficult to conceive is how the currently bloated and monetization heavy internet could survive without advertising. An internet composed of relevant and useful information stored as light weight documents could easily (and used to) exist without advertising. Without ads we probably wouldn’t have millions of identical recipe sites with infuriating backstories, pop ups, share buttons, in-line promotions, etc. but we would still have people sharing their grandmother’s apple pie recipe on personal sites along with a few paid services that add real value instead of SEO garbage and social fluff.

oblio 6y ago
> What’s difficult to conceive is how the currently bloated and monetization heavy internet could survive without advertising. The no-monetization web ship sailed circa 1995. The internet is about a lot of money and it will be about even more money. If it's not monetized through ads, it will be monetized in other ways (probably regular sales but most likely subscriptions).
- folkrav 6y ago
  I'm still kind of surprised to see people think of the internet as this static information library it was originally thought as. It hasn't been this way for decades.
- throwaway316943 6y ago
  I should have specified ad monetization or product placement, brand promotion and things in that vein. I’m not against commercializing of the internet but I am against the ad revenue model that heavily distorts the content and presentation. I don’t know what the winning model looks like, lots have been suggested like micropayments, subscriptions, donations, and others more far fetched but none of that can take root until we remove the toxic ad industry.
cblconfederate 6y ago
It is also a flat out lie because the "information on every topic, in every language, at the fingertips of billions of people" is not funded by ads, ads fund google, which keeps a 70% cut for themselves. Information is basically impossible to monetize these days unless people charge. Google does not create information, it copies/steals it. It is difficult to conceive Google without advertising as its economic foudnation.
- tehlike 6y ago
  How did you come up with "google keeps 70% to themselves" fact? Google revenue cut is around 30%, not the other way around.
  - cblconfederate 6y ago
    https://mediatel.co.uk/news/2016/10/04/where-did-the-money-go-guardian-buys-its-own-ad-inventory/ https://mediatel.co.uk/news/2016/10/04/where-did-the-money-g...
    - tehlike 6y ago
      I think this is an anectode.
op03 6y ago
Whats odd about the recipe story is my folks have accumulated quite a collection of cookbooks over the years, yet for mysterious reasons both prefer to endlessly scroll through the ad infested nightmare on every cooking site recommended by the Google app. Some of these sites have an Ad after every sentence.
- eek04_ 6y ago
  As somebody that has quite a few shelf-meters (shelf-yards) of cookbooks: If I'm looking for a specific recipe, it's still faster to go through the online recipes than getting out the cookbooks and going through the index and finding it. My phone is also more practical to lug around than a cookbook.
  - op03 6y ago
    Thats true.
sawmurai 6y ago
Yes, nothing more frustrating than quickly looking up a recipe detail whilst in the middle of cooking it and having to scroll deep, deeep, deeeeep down the useless SEO text only to scroll past that one tiny detail. My wife and I are creating our own cooking book as a PWA. Only bullet points, no fluff. Short: useful.
dageshi 6y ago
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug
folkrav 6y ago
> An internet composed of relevant and useful information stored as light weight documents could easily (and used to) exist without advertising. Any concrete traffic measurements between those sites then and now? I'd be extremely surprised if traffic didn't shoot up by orders of magnitude. That's also assuming that no ads means we'd go back to the mid-90s internet. Pretty sure there are still companies that would like to do business online, even without targeted ads. The tactics would change, that's it. > Without ads we probably wouldn’t have millions of identical recipe sites with infuriating backstories, pop ups, share buttons, in-line promotions, etc. True for pop-ups, in-line promotions or ads. But SEO will be a thing as long as we have search engines. Hell, earlier search engines were getting gamed with keyword stacking all the damn time. Bringing you on the page and showing you ads wouldn't be enough to make money, but I don't see how you'd even get rid of sites wanting traffic. Unless you're really advocating for getting rid of commercially motivated sites - which I'll assume you're not, as it is kind of delusional, IMHO. > we would still have people sharing their grandmother’s apple pie recipe on personal sites along with a few paid services that add real value instead of SEO garbage and social fluff That's a whole lot of extrapolation, and a rather subjective judgement call. Hell, one could definitely call this very site "social fluff".

oblio 6y ago

> What’s difficult to conceive is how the currently bloated and monetization heavy internet could survive without advertising. The no-monetization web ship sailed circa 1995. The internet is about a lot of money and it will be about even more money. If it's not monetized through ads, it will be monetized in other ways (probably regular sales but most likely subscriptions).

folkrav 6y ago
I'm still kind of surprised to see people think of the internet as this static information library it was originally thought as. It hasn't been this way for decades.
throwaway316943 6y ago
I should have specified ad monetization or product placement, brand promotion and things in that vein. I’m not against commercializing of the internet but I am against the ad revenue model that heavily distorts the content and presentation. I don’t know what the winning model looks like, lots have been suggested like micropayments, subscriptions, donations, and others more far fetched but none of that can take root until we remove the toxic ad industry.

cblconfederate 6y ago

It is also a flat out lie because the "information on every topic, in every language, at the fingertips of billions of people" is not funded by ads, ads fund google, which keeps a 70% cut for themselves. Information is basically impossible to monetize these days unless people charge. Google does not create information, it copies/steals it. It is difficult to conceive Google without advertising as its economic foudnation.

tehlike 6y ago
How did you come up with "google keeps 70% to themselves" fact? Google revenue cut is around 30%, not the other way around.
- cblconfederate 6y ago
  https://mediatel.co.uk/news/2016/10/04/where-did-the-money-go-guardian-buys-its-own-ad-inventory/ https://mediatel.co.uk/news/2016/10/04/where-did-the-money-g...
  - tehlike 6y ago
    I think this is an anectode.

op03 6y ago

Whats odd about the recipe story is my folks have accumulated quite a collection of cookbooks over the years, yet for mysterious reasons both prefer to endlessly scroll through the ad infested nightmare on every cooking site recommended by the Google app. Some of these sites have an Ad after every sentence.

eek04_ 6y ago
As somebody that has quite a few shelf-meters (shelf-yards) of cookbooks: If I'm looking for a specific recipe, it's still faster to go through the online recipes than getting out the cookbooks and going through the index and finding it. My phone is also more practical to lug around than a cookbook.
- op03 6y ago
  Thats true.

sawmurai 6y ago

Yes, nothing more frustrating than quickly looking up a recipe detail whilst in the middle of cooking it and having to scroll deep, deeep, deeeeep down the useless SEO text only to scroll past that one tiny detail. My wife and I are creating our own cooking book as a PWA. Only bullet points, no fluff. Short: useful.

dageshi 6y ago

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug

folkrav 6y ago

> An internet composed of relevant and useful information stored as light weight documents could easily (and used to) exist without advertising. Any concrete traffic measurements between those sites then and now? I'd be extremely surprised if traffic didn't shoot up by orders of magnitude. That's also assuming that no ads means we'd go back to the mid-90s internet. Pretty sure there are still companies that would like to do business online, even without targeted ads. The tactics would change, that's it. > Without ads we probably wouldn’t have millions of identical recipe sites with infuriating backstories, pop ups, share buttons, in-line promotions, etc. True for pop-ups, in-line promotions or ads. But SEO will be a thing as long as we have search engines. Hell, earlier search engines were getting gamed with keyword stacking all the damn time. Bringing you on the page and showing you ads wouldn't be enough to make money, but I don't see how you'd even get rid of sites wanting traffic. Unless you're really advocating for getting rid of commercially motivated sites - which I'll assume you're not, as it is kind of delusional, IMHO. > we would still have people sharing their grandmother’s apple pie recipe on personal sites along with a few paid services that add real value instead of SEO garbage and social fluff That's a whole lot of extrapolation, and a rather subjective judgement call. Hell, one could definitely call this very site "social fluff".