5 ms·

ICloud: The Mother of All Halos

15 points by jsherry 15y ago

jsherry 15y ago
It just seems to me that companies like SugarSync (and maybe Dropbox - I don't use it) have been doing this for years. I'm confident that Apple will improve some of the media streaming experience, but their real genius is in marketing these products b/c this has existed for some time.
- danieldk 15y ago
  iCloud is not (just) a hard disk in the cloud (as Steve Jobs said during the keynote). More defining is the API that makes it seamless for applications (and consequently users) to sync data to the cloud. In that sense, it's not just another Dropbox. In a year, the average iOS app will automatically sync data across devices using iCloud, while there is no simple knob you can switch to store it in Dropbox instead.
  - radarsat1 15y ago
    > In a year, the average iOS app will automatically sync data across devices using iCloud, while there is no simple knob you can switch to store it in Dropbox instead. Which is, frankly, scary: imho, you should be able to easily switch your "sync provider" seamlessly. (For healthy competition, for privacy rights)
    - danieldk 15y ago
      I fully agree, but it easy to fall for comfort, and lose flexibility. It's pretty much the same with iTunes: I can ditch OS X and switch back to Linux. However, I will not be able to play music and movies directly from my media player to the Apple TV2 without much effort. Also, synchronizing music from Banshee or Rhythmbox to my phone is not possible (until libgpod supports iPhone 4). iTunes/iCloud (/Google Apps/Facebook) will be the next Microsoft Office. You will be locked into a platform because your data lives there. It's clever.
  - jsherry 15y ago
    I will have to see the full implementation of iCloud to understand the difference. Again, can't speak for Dropbox even though they're the market leader. But SugarSync has this syncing functionality already and has had it for at least 2 years. You can sync to the cloud and access files from the cloud OR you can actually choose files/folders to sync across hardware. For example, if I say that I want to sync my music folder across my Macbook Air and my Thinkpad, any time I make an update on one machine, it flows through to the other machine's hard drive. Similar with documents. If I choose to sync a Word document across machines and I edit it and save on one machine, in seconds it updates on the other machine should I open it there. It's all seamless - happens in the background without me having to push it from machine to machine. Re: the API point, SugarSync has had one since 2010: http://www.sugarsync.com/developer http://www.sugarsync.com/developer. Haven't developed with it at all nor have I used an app that uses it, so can't speak for its flexibility. P.s. I swear I'm not a SugarSync employee - just a very satisfied user since 2008 ;-)
    - danieldk 15y ago
      You can sync to the cloud and access files from the cloud OR you can actually choose files/folders to sync across hardware. There is a huge usability difference between putting a file in some folder, and having it synced, and automatically syncing all relevant data in an application. This is easy to underestimate for us technical people, but it is very difficult to explain my mother that she has to put files in, say, Dropbox on her iPod Touch to be able to access it on her iPad. Do something on the iPod Touch, have it available nearly instantly on the iPad in the same application, she understands.
      - jsherry 15y ago
        Good point indeed. The functionality is already there, but Apple will surely simplify things and cause widespread adoption.
      - WayneDB 15y ago
        Dropbox has an API to allow external programs to use the service. There are no differences or very minor differences between iCloud and Dropbox functionality-wise. The fact that Apple is behind iCloud and they're now going to integrate all of _their_ applications and the OS with it is going to make the difference. Apple certainly didn't invent anything revolutionary here, however it's revolutionary that the maker of a widely used desktop OS is doing it.
stanleydrew 15y ago
It would seem that this guy has never actually used more than one Android device. Cause Android has done this from the very beginning, syncing data and apps through your Google account. Which is free. Indeed it has been awesome. When I turned on the Samsung galaxy 10.1 I got at I/O this year, it already knew my wpa key. That was just the latest in a series of small touches that have gone completely unnoticed by those living deep within the apple ecosystem.
- saturdaysaint 15y ago
  As an iOS user, I understand that Android's always been cloud-centric, but I'm curious (and a bit skeptical) if this has really entailed everything that Apple just unveiled: Does Android automatically sync photos (both with the cloud and the PC)? Does stock Android do a full backup (including application data) to the cloud? When I synced my iPhone 4 to iTunes for the first time, I instantly got voice notes, text files and PDF's I've had since my first iPhone. I've always wondered if an Android user picking up a new phone could expect the equivalent. Is the Google Docs experience (ie Google's answer to the "document syncing" problem) better on Android than it is on iOS devices? I've wanted to use Google Docs exclusively for years, but editing is practically unusable on an iPhone. I'm shocked at how slow they've moved to make documents mobile.
  - blinkingled 15y ago
    Photos : Multiple solutions exist to do n-way photo and video sync although it is highly debatable how useful anything other than Mobile to Cloud and Cloud to Mobile is which Android does out of box. Picasa photos and videos automatically appear in gallery and there is no limit to the number of photos. http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/backup.html http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/backup.html - Backup can include anything including app data and it doesn't have to go to Google's cloud - the backup client component is designed to be customizable to send your backup data wherever you please. Best part of all! Google Docs - Again multiple solutions exist. Documents to Go full edition offers seamless Google Docs support with decent editing functions. There exist Word/Excel add-ins that save to Google Docs from desktop.
cph1 15y ago
It's true; iCloud has the potential to be a massive lock-in mechanism, ensuring that people will continue to buy Apple devices for years on end because buying anything else will mean manually moving your data out of iCloud - which probably won't be easy for the average user.
- peterb 15y ago
  To move your data you will need to sync to a mac and then manually move your data. Copying from a iOS device is problematic, but that is true today.
  - cph1 15y ago
    > To move your data you will need to sync to a mac and then manually move your data. Which is exactly what a lot of users will be unable to do. They'll rather avoid the hassle by buying a new Apple device yet again. I'm not pointing my finger at Apple per se. If they provide a reasonably user-friendly way of moving your data then it's hard to blame them. But the fact is that most people will want to avoid the hassle, which means the iCloud becomes a lock-in mechanism.
  - Timothee 15y ago
    That would work for some stuff, but I'm not sure what would happen to the data stored by third-party apps. iTunes has a section to retrieve documents that some apps create, as long as the apps themselves are built to take advantage of that. However, if an app doesn't provide either that or some kind of export, I'm not sure if you'd get easy access to that data. And actually that might create an incentive for some apps not to add the functionality. It makes sense for Office-type apps to provide a PDF, or Office-compatible format, but I could imagine very specific apps that can lock you in since you don't get to (easily) reverse-engineer and convert their data because you don't get as easy of an access as you get on a desktop.
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  What data, specifically? The only thing that comes to mind is music, but that lock-in already exists with iTunes.
ThomPete 15y ago
It's not that others haven't done it before. It's that Apple hasn't done it until now. That is the big thing. Not the technology in itself.
blinkingled 15y ago
Quote - " Who wants to go back to emailing documents to yourself, or firing up Dropbox to move media from one device to another, when iCloud will–if it works properly–obviate the need for both by enabling change-on-one-device, update-to-all computing that’s ostensibly effortless and invisible?" " Add to that a price point of free and a software-driven ecosystem like the one Apple’s developed and, well, that’s an offer not easily refused. Not easily duplicated, either–particularly for more fragmented platforms like Android" Hmm. Never used Android before or just paying it back Mr. Writer? Apple patted him in the back and John is just doing his best in response. WSJ is Apple's guerilla marketing arm.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
adaml_623 15y ago
Does anybody else think that the EU is going to jump on Apple eventually the same way they jumped on Microsoft and browsers and make Apple provide a way for users to select which storage provider they want to use?
- adaml_623 15y ago
  Or legistlate to allow it so that 3rd party hardware/software products can connect to the Cloud?
- cph1 15y ago
  I certainly hope so.
- a2tech 15y ago
  They might try-but why would Apple let them? They can just take their ball and go home. I couldn't find any hard numbers but a few articles I found were claiming that European sales make up less than 11% of total Apple sales.
  - pavlov 15y ago
    That makes sense in a world where losing billions of dollars of revenue is preferable to adding an API. The EU has a population of over 500 million. Apple's presence in Europe involves much more than selling computers and gadgets. If they actually were to retreat because of some squabble with the EU Commission, they'd also be abandoning dozens of telecom operators with whom they have iPhone deals, tens of thousands of developers who make things for the iOS and Mac platform, and millions of consumers who buy digital content from iTunes... Leaving all that on the table in this extremely competitive market would be nothing short of madness.

15 points by jsherry 15y ago

It just seems to me that companies like SugarSync (and maybe Dropbox - I don't use it) have been doing this for years. I'm confident that Apple will improve some of the media streaming experience, but their real genius is in marketing these products b/c this has existed for some time.

danieldk 15y ago
iCloud is not (just) a hard disk in the cloud (as Steve Jobs said during the keynote). More defining is the API that makes it seamless for applications (and consequently users) to sync data to the cloud. In that sense, it's not just another Dropbox. In a year, the average iOS app will automatically sync data across devices using iCloud, while there is no simple knob you can switch to store it in Dropbox instead.
- radarsat1 15y ago
  > In a year, the average iOS app will automatically sync data across devices using iCloud, while there is no simple knob you can switch to store it in Dropbox instead. Which is, frankly, scary: imho, you should be able to easily switch your "sync provider" seamlessly. (For healthy competition, for privacy rights)
  - danieldk 15y ago
    I fully agree, but it easy to fall for comfort, and lose flexibility. It's pretty much the same with iTunes: I can ditch OS X and switch back to Linux. However, I will not be able to play music and movies directly from my media player to the Apple TV2 without much effort. Also, synchronizing music from Banshee or Rhythmbox to my phone is not possible (until libgpod supports iPhone 4). iTunes/iCloud (/Google Apps/Facebook) will be the next Microsoft Office. You will be locked into a platform because your data lives there. It's clever.
- jsherry 15y ago
  I will have to see the full implementation of iCloud to understand the difference. Again, can't speak for Dropbox even though they're the market leader. But SugarSync has this syncing functionality already and has had it for at least 2 years. You can sync to the cloud and access files from the cloud OR you can actually choose files/folders to sync across hardware. For example, if I say that I want to sync my music folder across my Macbook Air and my Thinkpad, any time I make an update on one machine, it flows through to the other machine's hard drive. Similar with documents. If I choose to sync a Word document across machines and I edit it and save on one machine, in seconds it updates on the other machine should I open it there. It's all seamless - happens in the background without me having to push it from machine to machine. Re: the API point, SugarSync has had one since 2010: http://www.sugarsync.com/developer http://www.sugarsync.com/developer. Haven't developed with it at all nor have I used an app that uses it, so can't speak for its flexibility. P.s. I swear I'm not a SugarSync employee - just a very satisfied user since 2008 ;-)
  - danieldk 15y ago
    You can sync to the cloud and access files from the cloud OR you can actually choose files/folders to sync across hardware. There is a huge usability difference between putting a file in some folder, and having it synced, and automatically syncing all relevant data in an application. This is easy to underestimate for us technical people, but it is very difficult to explain my mother that she has to put files in, say, Dropbox on her iPod Touch to be able to access it on her iPad. Do something on the iPod Touch, have it available nearly instantly on the iPad in the same application, she understands.
    - jsherry 15y ago
      Good point indeed. The functionality is already there, but Apple will surely simplify things and cause widespread adoption.
    - WayneDB 15y ago
      Dropbox has an API to allow external programs to use the service. There are no differences or very minor differences between iCloud and Dropbox functionality-wise. The fact that Apple is behind iCloud and they're now going to integrate all of _their_ applications and the OS with it is going to make the difference. Apple certainly didn't invent anything revolutionary here, however it's revolutionary that the maker of a widely used desktop OS is doing it.

stanleydrew 15y ago

It would seem that this guy has never actually used more than one Android device. Cause Android has done this from the very beginning, syncing data and apps through your Google account. Which is free. Indeed it has been awesome. When I turned on the Samsung galaxy 10.1 I got at I/O this year, it already knew my wpa key. That was just the latest in a series of small touches that have gone completely unnoticed by those living deep within the apple ecosystem.

saturdaysaint 15y ago
As an iOS user, I understand that Android's always been cloud-centric, but I'm curious (and a bit skeptical) if this has really entailed everything that Apple just unveiled: Does Android automatically sync photos (both with the cloud and the PC)? Does stock Android do a full backup (including application data) to the cloud? When I synced my iPhone 4 to iTunes for the first time, I instantly got voice notes, text files and PDF's I've had since my first iPhone. I've always wondered if an Android user picking up a new phone could expect the equivalent. Is the Google Docs experience (ie Google's answer to the "document syncing" problem) better on Android than it is on iOS devices? I've wanted to use Google Docs exclusively for years, but editing is practically unusable on an iPhone. I'm shocked at how slow they've moved to make documents mobile.
- blinkingled 15y ago
  Photos : Multiple solutions exist to do n-way photo and video sync although it is highly debatable how useful anything other than Mobile to Cloud and Cloud to Mobile is which Android does out of box. Picasa photos and videos automatically appear in gallery and there is no limit to the number of photos. http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/backup.html http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/data/backup.html - Backup can include anything including app data and it doesn't have to go to Google's cloud - the backup client component is designed to be customizable to send your backup data wherever you please. Best part of all! Google Docs - Again multiple solutions exist. Documents to Go full edition offers seamless Google Docs support with decent editing functions. There exist Word/Excel add-ins that save to Google Docs from desktop.

cph1 15y ago

It's true; iCloud has the potential to be a massive lock-in mechanism, ensuring that people will continue to buy Apple devices for years on end because buying anything else will mean manually moving your data out of iCloud - which probably won't be easy for the average user.

peterb 15y ago
To move your data you will need to sync to a mac and then manually move your data. Copying from a iOS device is problematic, but that is true today.
- cph1 15y ago
  > To move your data you will need to sync to a mac and then manually move your data. Which is exactly what a lot of users will be unable to do. They'll rather avoid the hassle by buying a new Apple device yet again. I'm not pointing my finger at Apple per se. If they provide a reasonably user-friendly way of moving your data then it's hard to blame them. But the fact is that most people will want to avoid the hassle, which means the iCloud becomes a lock-in mechanism.
- Timothee 15y ago
  That would work for some stuff, but I'm not sure what would happen to the data stored by third-party apps. iTunes has a section to retrieve documents that some apps create, as long as the apps themselves are built to take advantage of that. However, if an app doesn't provide either that or some kind of export, I'm not sure if you'd get easy access to that data. And actually that might create an incentive for some apps not to add the functionality. It makes sense for Office-type apps to provide a PDF, or Office-compatible format, but I could imagine very specific apps that can lock you in since you don't get to (easily) reverse-engineer and convert their data because you don't get as easy of an access as you get on a desktop.
MatthewPhillips 15y ago
What data, specifically? The only thing that comes to mind is music, but that lock-in already exists with iTunes.

ThomPete 15y ago

It's not that others haven't done it before. It's that Apple hasn't done it until now. That is the big thing. Not the technology in itself.

blinkingled 15y ago

Quote - " Who wants to go back to emailing documents to yourself, or firing up Dropbox to move media from one device to another, when iCloud will–if it works properly–obviate the need for both by enabling change-on-one-device, update-to-all computing that’s ostensibly effortless and invisible?" " Add to that a price point of free and a software-driven ecosystem like the one Apple’s developed and, well, that’s an offer not easily refused. Not easily duplicated, either–particularly for more fragmented platforms like Android" Hmm. Never used Android before or just paying it back Mr. Writer? Apple patted him in the back and John is just doing his best in response. WSJ is Apple's guerilla marketing arm.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

adaml_623 15y ago

Does anybody else think that the EU is going to jump on Apple eventually the same way they jumped on Microsoft and browsers and make Apple provide a way for users to select which storage provider they want to use?

adaml_623 15y ago
Or legistlate to allow it so that 3rd party hardware/software products can connect to the Cloud?
cph1 15y ago
I certainly hope so.
a2tech 15y ago
They might try-but why would Apple let them? They can just take their ball and go home. I couldn't find any hard numbers but a few articles I found were claiming that European sales make up less than 11% of total Apple sales.
- pavlov 15y ago
  That makes sense in a world where losing billions of dollars of revenue is preferable to adding an API. The EU has a population of over 500 million. Apple's presence in Europe involves much more than selling computers and gadgets. If they actually were to retreat because of some squabble with the EU Commission, they'd also be abandoning dozens of telecom operators with whom they have iPhone deals, tens of thousands of developers who make things for the iOS and Mac platform, and millions of consumers who buy digital content from iTunes... Leaving all that on the table in this extremely competitive market would be nothing short of madness.