4 ms·

Thanks for the info. It is apparent to me from living life that meat is a big part of a healthy diet. But it can be frustrating seeing studies such as this one

Thanks for the info. It is apparent to me from living life that meat is a big part of a healthy diet. But it can be frustrating seeing studies such as this one come out and not knowing what to believe. I recently started dating a vegetarian and am really realizing how much harder it is to eat a healthy vegetarian diet. Since no one actually wants to eat nothing but greens / veggies all day, many of her meals are carb heavy to fill up, with little protein. I'm not saying you can't be a healthy vegetarian - but it's harder. There are no good meal analogues for something like grilled chicken with a sweet potato/veggies on the side.

thaumasiotes 6y ago
Vegetarianism has been a (mandatory!) prestige marker in India for at least several hundred years; a traditional diet of that type will be adequately healthy[1]. What's hard is cutting meat out of a meat-based diet. You can't expect to just intuit how to fill the holes it leaves. [1] As with all traditional practices, partial adoption may result in loss of any amount of the benefit, including amounts greater than 100%.
- galangalalgol 6y ago
  Also applying diets from one genetic cluster in a different one from another climate is asking for trouble. I can process lactose fine, but many can't. Chickpeas and lentils I do not absorb well.
  - thaumasiotes 6y ago
    It is a risk, but it's still true that the Indian vegetarian diet will cover all major dietary needs. And while that's not the most ringing endorsement, it's more than you can say for cutting meat out of a diet that features a lot of meat.
    - galangalalgol 6y ago
      How much dairy protein is in such a diet? A lot of the curries I enjoy have yogurt and I love the cheese and cream in palak and saag paneer. But those may not be normal dishes?
      - thaumasiotes 6y ago
        I don't know, though my first guess would have been that the major source of protein would be lentils or other pulses. Yogurt is certainly plausible as well.
- User23 6y ago
  In England eating beef has been a prestige marker for at least several hundred years[1]. A traditional diet of that type will be more than adequately healthy. What’s hard is getting over ancient superstitions about animals being reincarnated people and then rationalizing that it’s actually healthy for an omnivorous species to abandon eating meat. Or maybe there’s no reason to believe that a diet that’s healthy for Indians is necessarily healthy for Europeans or vice versa. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6043908-beef-and-liberty https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6043908-beef-and-liberty
paulirwin 6y ago
There are plenty of good substitutes for chicken that are rich in protein, some even complete proteins. Flavor them however you like. Tofu, tempeh, seitan, chickpeas, portabella mushroom, quinoa, lentils, just to name a few. And then there's the actual chicken analogues like Morningstar and Beyond Chicken, which are pretty good and realistic. I am completely satisfied with any of these and some veggies on the side, even without added carbs, although I do love me some carbs too. (Background: have been vegetarian for 15 years.)
cbozeman 6y ago
Just look to biology for the answers, its there if you pay attention. The leader of a wolf pack gets first pickins at a kill, and it always eats the liver first. Large carnivores elsewhere eat organs first as well. There's a growing body of research for something that's being called the "carnivore" diet, and there's a sub-movement called "eating nose-to-tail" that seems to be, as best as I can tell, led by a physician named Dr. Paul Saladino, M.D., although the usual suspects are always on his podcast, or he's on theirs and/or associated with him: Dr. Dominic D'Agostino, Dr. Shawn Baker, M.D., etc. Its basically exactly what you would expect... eating a lot of heart, liver, kidneys, along with skeletal muscle, etc.. I tried to do it, but I love things like french fries, roasted potatoes, roasted Brussel sprouts, etc. way too much. The biomarkers on this diet look amazing, but its always the same "problem". The people who are evangelical about eating this way are also huge into fitness, oftentimes spending an hour or more a day exercising. I'd like to see 100 total lazy fatasses on a nose-to-tail carnivore diet and 100 total lazy fatasses on a vegetarian diet for 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, and 2 years, and do weekly workups on them... blood pressure, fasting glucose, post-prandial glucose, and so on.
- LinuxBender 6y ago
  If you would like organ meats but don't like the texture there are meat pills that contain an equal portion of each organ type that are desiccated. These [1] are the ones I use. [1] - https://shop.ancestralsupplements.com/collections/frontpage/products/grass-fed-beef-organs-liver-heart-kidney-pancreas-spleen-1 https://shop.ancestralsupplements.com/collections/frontpage/...
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    Fantastic. Thank you very much. Any idea how many you should take daily? I didn't really see anything on that page, although judging by the amount of capsules per bottle, I would assume 6 per day? 180 caps / 30 days = 6?
    - LinuxBender 6y ago
      I think that should be based on your dietary requirements and what amino acid and vitamin gaps you are trying to fill. There are breakdowns of the vitamin content somewhere on their site and I think I also found it in the Amazon questions section. I use 6 when I only have protein shakes but I use less when I eat a complete meal. That is just my personal preference.

thaumasiotes 6y ago

Vegetarianism has been a (mandatory!) prestige marker in India for at least several hundred years; a traditional diet of that type will be adequately healthy[1]. What's hard is cutting meat out of a meat-based diet. You can't expect to just intuit how to fill the holes it leaves. [1] As with all traditional practices, partial adoption may result in loss of any amount of the benefit, including amounts greater than 100%.

galangalalgol 6y ago
Also applying diets from one genetic cluster in a different one from another climate is asking for trouble. I can process lactose fine, but many can't. Chickpeas and lentils I do not absorb well.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  It is a risk, but it's still true that the Indian vegetarian diet will cover all major dietary needs. And while that's not the most ringing endorsement, it's more than you can say for cutting meat out of a diet that features a lot of meat.
  - galangalalgol 6y ago
    How much dairy protein is in such a diet? A lot of the curries I enjoy have yogurt and I love the cheese and cream in palak and saag paneer. But those may not be normal dishes?
    - thaumasiotes 6y ago
      I don't know, though my first guess would have been that the major source of protein would be lentils or other pulses. Yogurt is certainly plausible as well.
User23 6y ago
In England eating beef has been a prestige marker for at least several hundred years[1]. A traditional diet of that type will be more than adequately healthy. What’s hard is getting over ancient superstitions about animals being reincarnated people and then rationalizing that it’s actually healthy for an omnivorous species to abandon eating meat. Or maybe there’s no reason to believe that a diet that’s healthy for Indians is necessarily healthy for Europeans or vice versa. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6043908-beef-and-liberty https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6043908-beef-and-liberty

paulirwin 6y ago

There are plenty of good substitutes for chicken that are rich in protein, some even complete proteins. Flavor them however you like. Tofu, tempeh, seitan, chickpeas, portabella mushroom, quinoa, lentils, just to name a few. And then there's the actual chicken analogues like Morningstar and Beyond Chicken, which are pretty good and realistic. I am completely satisfied with any of these and some veggies on the side, even without added carbs, although I do love me some carbs too. (Background: have been vegetarian for 15 years.)

cbozeman 6y ago

Just look to biology for the answers, its there if you pay attention. The leader of a wolf pack gets first pickins at a kill, and it always eats the liver first. Large carnivores elsewhere eat organs first as well. There's a growing body of research for something that's being called the "carnivore" diet, and there's a sub-movement called "eating nose-to-tail" that seems to be, as best as I can tell, led by a physician named Dr. Paul Saladino, M.D., although the usual suspects are always on his podcast, or he's on theirs and/or associated with him: Dr. Dominic D'Agostino, Dr. Shawn Baker, M.D., etc. Its basically exactly what you would expect... eating a lot of heart, liver, kidneys, along with skeletal muscle, etc.. I tried to do it, but I love things like french fries, roasted potatoes, roasted Brussel sprouts, etc. way too much. The biomarkers on this diet look amazing, but its always the same "problem". The people who are evangelical about eating this way are also huge into fitness, oftentimes spending an hour or more a day exercising. I'd like to see 100 total lazy fatasses on a nose-to-tail carnivore diet and 100 total lazy fatasses on a vegetarian diet for 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year, and 2 years, and do weekly workups on them... blood pressure, fasting glucose, post-prandial glucose, and so on.

LinuxBender 6y ago
If you would like organ meats but don't like the texture there are meat pills that contain an equal portion of each organ type that are desiccated. These [1] are the ones I use. [1] - https://shop.ancestralsupplements.com/collections/frontpage/products/grass-fed-beef-organs-liver-heart-kidney-pancreas-spleen-1 https://shop.ancestralsupplements.com/collections/frontpage/...
- cbozeman 6y ago
  Fantastic. Thank you very much. Any idea how many you should take daily? I didn't really see anything on that page, although judging by the amount of capsules per bottle, I would assume 6 per day? 180 caps / 30 days = 6?
  - LinuxBender 6y ago
    I think that should be based on your dietary requirements and what amino acid and vitamin gaps you are trying to fill. There are breakdowns of the vitamin content somewhere on their site and I think I also found it in the Amazon questions section. I use 6 when I only have protein shakes but I use less when I eat a complete meal. That is just my personal preference.