5 ms·

Food surveys and food diaries are hilariously bad[1]. I'm surprised any studies based on them are still getting published. There was literally a reality TV sho

by blfr 6y ago

Food surveys and food diaries are hilariously bad[1]. I'm surprised any studies based on them are still getting published. There was literally a reality TV show in England based around how terribly inaccurate food diaries are. It's on YouTube[2]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4527547/figure/F1/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4527547/figure/... [2] https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=secret+eaters https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=secret+eaters

jtdev 6y ago
Studies like this are published for political reasons, not scientific reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is behind this study.
- kritiko 6y ago
  The study’s funding is included in the study: Funding This work was supported by the Wellcome Trust, Our Planet Our Health (Livestock, Environment and People - LEAP) [grant number 205212/Z/16/Z]; Cancer Research UK [grant numbers C8211/A19170 and C8211/A29017]; and the UK Medical Research Council [grant number MR/M012190/1]. AP-C is supported by a Cancer Research UK Population Research Fellowship [grant number C60192/A28516] and by the World Cancer Research Fund (WCRF UK), as part of the WCRF International grant programme [grant number 2019/1953].
  - scythe 6y ago
    In fairness, he's not far off. The Wellcome Trust was established by a pharmaceutical magnate and is the fourth-richest charitable organization in the world, with an endowment of ~$40bn.
    - kritiko 6y ago
      I think the point was that Bill Gates is believed to be in favor of hyperprocessed meat alternatives & has invested in some. (I don't know the details here - I'm guessing many of his detractors don't know them either.) I'm not sure whether Wellcome has a similar real or perceived conflict of interest. I did think it was interesting that they showed a lower instance of Afib and varicose veins across the meat eaters...
  - themgt 6y ago
    Right so if you look at LEAP[0] they talk about how "global average consumption of meat and dairy is rising, driven by increasing incomes and population growth ... livestock production can have major environmental impacts ... Livestock production is also a major source of greenhouse gases and other pollutants, increases water scarcity in some regions and can exacerbate soil erosion ... LEAP programme aims to understand the health, environmental, social and economic effects of meat and dairy production and consumption to provide evidence and tools for decision makers to promote healthy and sustainable diets" They also have a brief explainer video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGpjeyypKMU&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGpjeyypKMU&feature=emb_logo I'm not going to call this a nefarious conspiracy, but in the same way you might wonder about a study funded by Coca Cola, LEAP doesn't sound like they'd want to fund a study concluding "eating beef is much healthier than soy protein" If you combine that with the original criticism about the poor study design, you can come to your own conclusions about whether to reduce your meat consumption. [0] https://www.leap.ox.ac.uk/about https://www.leap.ox.ac.uk/about
  - tomp 6y ago
    Actually, looks like the Gateses have in the past funded the Wellcome Trust. https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/Quick-Links/Grants-Database#q/k=wellcome https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/Quick-Links/Gran...
    - ChrisRR 6y ago
      So the Gates want to prevent Malaria and Pneumonia. What's the issue?
      - jtdev 6y ago
        He wants to tell you what you can and can’t eat. He’s on a fake meat kick rn.
    - tweetle_beetle 6y ago
      The Wellcome Trust is a huge organisation that receives funding from many sources and funds a huge number of projects with it. And they are just one of several funders of this project. If Bill Gates was that desperate to control what you eat, I'd suggest he could find more effective ways than funding completed unrelated work specifically at the Wellcome Trust starting a decade ago, in the hope that one day he could use his connections to pressure them to give a modest amount of their own money to a study that will likely not have any major impact politically. This looks to me like a desperate attempt to find an agenda where there isn't one, verging on constituency theory terrain.
- ChrisRR 6y ago
  Even if that were true, what kind of issue would that be if Bill Gates wanted people to get fewer easily preventable illnesses?
  - jtdev 6y ago
    There’s zero hard evidence that red meat consumption leads to bad health outcomes. It’s all epidemiological fud. Why are people so comfortable with billionaires telling them how to live?
    - gruez 6y ago
      >Why are people so comfortable with billionaires telling them how to live? Has it occurred to you that billionaires can be using their resource for good? In your cynical world nothing can ever get done because ordinary people don't have the resources to do good, and the people who are resourced and want to do good are shooed away because people like you
xphilter 6y ago
That show is incredible. Thanks for sharing. There’s a corollary with Covid in there somewhere: “we’re taking this so seriously” (but then hanging out with friends etc, like that SNL skit).
User23 6y ago
To further concur, when I was engineering my own body composition improvement plan I quickly learned to completely ignore any study that wasn’t performed in a controlled metabolic ward. Which is, essentially, a voluntary prison. Needless to say participant compensation is considerably more costly than the totally unscientific alternatives so such studies are rare.
- mleonhard 6y ago
  Can you share some links to studies done in a metabolic ward that contradict survey-based studies?
  - User23 6y ago
    I don't have any links handy, this was years ago and I didn't save them. Scholar search or something similar should find you plenty of hits though for metabolic ward. My interest was primarily in nutrient partitioning and thermic effects of food. I want to clarify that I don't claim that survey-based studies necessarily or even predominantly make incorrect claims, just that I am not satisfied with their basis for making such claims.
mywittyname 6y ago
Daily meat consumption is probably something people can gauge with a high degree of accuracy. People in developed countries are probably all-or-nothing unless they are actively trying to reduce their meat consumption while not being vegetarian.

by blfr 6y ago

jtdev 6y ago

Studies like this are published for political reasons, not scientific reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation is behind this study.

kritiko 6y ago
The study’s funding is included in the study: Funding This work was supported by the Wellcome Trust, Our Planet Our Health (Livestock, Environment and People - LEAP) [grant number 205212/Z/16/Z]; Cancer Research UK [grant numbers C8211/A19170 and C8211/A29017]; and the UK Medical Research Council [grant number MR/M012190/1]. AP-C is supported by a Cancer Research UK Population Research Fellowship [grant number C60192/A28516] and by the World Cancer Research Fund (WCRF UK), as part of the WCRF International grant programme [grant number 2019/1953].
- scythe 6y ago
  In fairness, he's not far off. The Wellcome Trust was established by a pharmaceutical magnate and is the fourth-richest charitable organization in the world, with an endowment of ~$40bn.
  - kritiko 6y ago
    I think the point was that Bill Gates is believed to be in favor of hyperprocessed meat alternatives & has invested in some. (I don't know the details here - I'm guessing many of his detractors don't know them either.) I'm not sure whether Wellcome has a similar real or perceived conflict of interest. I did think it was interesting that they showed a lower instance of Afib and varicose veins across the meat eaters...
- themgt 6y ago
  Right so if you look at LEAP[0] they talk about how "global average consumption of meat and dairy is rising, driven by increasing incomes and population growth ... livestock production can have major environmental impacts ... Livestock production is also a major source of greenhouse gases and other pollutants, increases water scarcity in some regions and can exacerbate soil erosion ... LEAP programme aims to understand the health, environmental, social and economic effects of meat and dairy production and consumption to provide evidence and tools for decision makers to promote healthy and sustainable diets" They also have a brief explainer video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGpjeyypKMU&feature=emb_logo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGpjeyypKMU&feature=emb_logo I'm not going to call this a nefarious conspiracy, but in the same way you might wonder about a study funded by Coca Cola, LEAP doesn't sound like they'd want to fund a study concluding "eating beef is much healthier than soy protein" If you combine that with the original criticism about the poor study design, you can come to your own conclusions about whether to reduce your meat consumption. [0] https://www.leap.ox.ac.uk/about https://www.leap.ox.ac.uk/about
- tomp 6y ago
  Actually, looks like the Gateses have in the past funded the Wellcome Trust. https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/Quick-Links/Grants-Database#q/k=wellcome https://www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/Quick-Links/Gran...
  - ChrisRR 6y ago
    So the Gates want to prevent Malaria and Pneumonia. What's the issue?
    - jtdev 6y ago
      He wants to tell you what you can and can’t eat. He’s on a fake meat kick rn.
  - tweetle_beetle 6y ago
    The Wellcome Trust is a huge organisation that receives funding from many sources and funds a huge number of projects with it. And they are just one of several funders of this project. If Bill Gates was that desperate to control what you eat, I'd suggest he could find more effective ways than funding completed unrelated work specifically at the Wellcome Trust starting a decade ago, in the hope that one day he could use his connections to pressure them to give a modest amount of their own money to a study that will likely not have any major impact politically. This looks to me like a desperate attempt to find an agenda where there isn't one, verging on constituency theory terrain.
ChrisRR 6y ago
Even if that were true, what kind of issue would that be if Bill Gates wanted people to get fewer easily preventable illnesses?
- jtdev 6y ago
  There’s zero hard evidence that red meat consumption leads to bad health outcomes. It’s all epidemiological fud. Why are people so comfortable with billionaires telling them how to live?
  - gruez 6y ago
    >Why are people so comfortable with billionaires telling them how to live? Has it occurred to you that billionaires can be using their resource for good? In your cynical world nothing can ever get done because ordinary people don't have the resources to do good, and the people who are resourced and want to do good are shooed away because people like you

xphilter 6y ago

That show is incredible. Thanks for sharing. There’s a corollary with Covid in there somewhere: “we’re taking this so seriously” (but then hanging out with friends etc, like that SNL skit).

User23 6y ago

To further concur, when I was engineering my own body composition improvement plan I quickly learned to completely ignore any study that wasn’t performed in a controlled metabolic ward. Which is, essentially, a voluntary prison. Needless to say participant compensation is considerably more costly than the totally unscientific alternatives so such studies are rare.

mleonhard 6y ago
Can you share some links to studies done in a metabolic ward that contradict survey-based studies?
- User23 6y ago
  I don't have any links handy, this was years ago and I didn't save them. Scholar search or something similar should find you plenty of hits though for metabolic ward. My interest was primarily in nutrient partitioning and thermic effects of food. I want to clarify that I don't claim that survey-based studies necessarily or even predominantly make incorrect claims, just that I am not satisfied with their basis for making such claims.

mywittyname 6y ago

Daily meat consumption is probably something people can gauge with a high degree of accuracy. People in developed countries are probably all-or-nothing unless they are actively trying to reduce their meat consumption while not being vegetarian.