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> It's always nice and slick on the surface, and then a twisting pile of mess underneath. You kind of just described Linux, Unix, modern Web dev, iOS dev, Andr

by Opinionator2021 6y ago

> It's always nice and slick on the surface, and then a twisting pile of mess underneath. You kind of just described Linux, Unix, modern Web dev, iOS dev, Android dev etc.

marcus_holmes 6y ago
Yeah but no. Linux is pretty open and honest about the twisting mess. There are years-long discussions about them. The Xorg/Wayland thing has been surfacing a few times on HN recently. If you search for a Linux problem, you'll get 50 different people telling you 25 different ways of fixing it, most of which work. If you search for a Microsoft problem, you'll get 50 pages of corporate bullshit that pretend everything's OK. You have to ignore those and dig further to find some unofficial blogger or random dev post that actually tells you something useful. Also looking at you, Apple - less bullshit and more honesty in your support pages please
- a1o 6y ago
  > you'll get 50 pages of corporate bullshit that pretend everything's OK Add Android on this category too. They also do videos to be even more infuriating!
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
  > If you search for a Linux problem, you'll get 50 different people telling you 25 different ways of fixing it, most of which work. Not in my experience. They may have worked for some version of some distro, but it is almost always not the one I'm trying to fix the problem on. > If you search for a Microsoft problem, you'll get 50 pages of corporate bullshit that pretend everything's OK. You have to ignore those and dig further to find some unofficial blogger or random dev post that actually tells you something useful. Unfortunately that is also pretty accurate, and it has been getting worse since Windows 10, resembling more and more the problem with searching for solutions to Linux issues. Does this fix still work for 1901 or did it only work for 1607?
boogies 6y ago
> You kind of just described Linux, Unix, modern Web dev, iOS dev, Android dev etc. More devs seem to have this opinion of Microsoft technologies though. Their desktop OS is the most dreaded as a platform, and the most dreaded of any OS except for Android (by 4‰, and of course devs already killed Windows Mobile)¹. And even more relevant to the link we’re discussing, another relatively low-barrier-to-entry language they created is the single most-hated programming language there is². ¹https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-most-loved-dreaded-and-wanted-platforms-dreaded5 https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-mo... ²https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-most-loved-dreaded-and-wanted-languages-dreaded https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-mo...
- mmoskal 6y ago
  It's interesting that the "dreadfulness" of OS seems to perfectly correlated with number of users (Android, Windows, iOS, macOS, Linux).
  - marcus_holmes 6y ago
    That is interesting. I assume it's because corporate takes over and honest communication is no longer possible when the financial stakes of admitting error become too large. But I could be wrong.

> It's always nice and slick on the surface, and then a twisting pile of mess underneath. You kind of just described Linux, Unix, modern Web dev, iOS dev, Android dev etc.

marcus_holmes 6y ago

Yeah but no. Linux is pretty open and honest about the twisting mess. There are years-long discussions about them. The Xorg/Wayland thing has been surfacing a few times on HN recently. If you search for a Linux problem, you'll get 50 different people telling you 25 different ways of fixing it, most of which work. If you search for a Microsoft problem, you'll get 50 pages of corporate bullshit that pretend everything's OK. You have to ignore those and dig further to find some unofficial blogger or random dev post that actually tells you something useful. Also looking at you, Apple - less bullshit and more honesty in your support pages please

a1o 6y ago
> you'll get 50 pages of corporate bullshit that pretend everything's OK Add Android on this category too. They also do videos to be even more infuriating!
AnIdiotOnTheNet 6y ago
> If you search for a Linux problem, you'll get 50 different people telling you 25 different ways of fixing it, most of which work. Not in my experience. They may have worked for some version of some distro, but it is almost always not the one I'm trying to fix the problem on. > If you search for a Microsoft problem, you'll get 50 pages of corporate bullshit that pretend everything's OK. You have to ignore those and dig further to find some unofficial blogger or random dev post that actually tells you something useful. Unfortunately that is also pretty accurate, and it has been getting worse since Windows 10, resembling more and more the problem with searching for solutions to Linux issues. Does this fix still work for 1901 or did it only work for 1607?

boogies 6y ago

> You kind of just described Linux, Unix, modern Web dev, iOS dev, Android dev etc. More devs seem to have this opinion of Microsoft technologies though. Their desktop OS is the most dreaded as a platform, and the most dreaded of any OS except for Android (by 4‰, and of course devs already killed Windows Mobile)¹. And even more relevant to the link we’re discussing, another relatively low-barrier-to-entry language they created is the single most-hated programming language there is². ¹https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-most-loved-dreaded-and-wanted-platforms-dreaded5 https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-mo... ²https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-most-loved-dreaded-and-wanted-languages-dreaded https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2020#technology-mo...

mmoskal 6y ago
It's interesting that the "dreadfulness" of OS seems to perfectly correlated with number of users (Android, Windows, iOS, macOS, Linux).
- marcus_holmes 6y ago
  That is interesting. I assume it's because corporate takes over and honest communication is no longer possible when the financial stakes of admitting error become too large. But I could be wrong.