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Doesn't seem to mention anything about recharge time, which in a transport situation Hydrogen will win 9/10. refueling with H is gonna blow battery recharge ti

Doesn't seem to mention anything about recharge time, which in a transport situation Hydrogen will win 9/10. refueling with H is gonna blow battery recharge times out of the "water"

blake1 6y ago
I wouldn’t be so sure. We have experience with fast chargers, and know how fast and what it costs for EV fast charging. But how would a H2 fueling station work? Customers would have to make an extremely tight coupling, and while the compressors pressurize the customers tank. I expect that will take longer then petroleum refueling. And the cost? The bill will have to compensate the fueling station for same fairly exotic tech. We know fuel cell technology works, and it may have a really important niche. I don’t think we can assume it will be able to compete with EVs on cost and charging time.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > But how would a H2 fueling station work? The one near my home seems to work, by observing people using it (it's colocated with a gas station) pretty much just like a normal gas station. I'm sure the coupling hardware is quite special, and it might take a little longer (or not) for a similar range fuel load, but when people fuel their Mirais it's the same basic flow as with gas vehicles, pull up to the pump, hook it up, fuel, and go from a drive-in pump, not a parking space. So, it's on the same basic ballpark, UX wise, not the “well, if I was on a long trip and needed to fuel, it's okay because i’ll just time it with a meal/rest break” kind of thing that is used to justify BEV charging not being excessively inconvenient.
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    BEV charging isn't "excessively" inconvenient because you charge it like your phone: plug it in every night before you go to bed. You might not have 100% charge every morning, but that's no different from fuel, most people rarely have 100% in the tank. What is different is an ICE or a Hydrogen tank is never going to have more in it when you wake up in the morning than before you went to bed. That's a paradigm shift. (It is okay that on long trips you time a recharge with a meal/rest break, because that is the rare exception, not the week to week lifestyle.)
speedgoose 6y ago
Would you stop 15 minutes and have a cheap charging session, or 5 minutes and have an expensive one ? Hydrogen is not instant to refuel so the time difference is not too crazy.
linsomniac 6y ago
Depending on how you look at it, most of my recharging is effectively 15 seconds. Because I charge at home, it is just the time involved in pluggging the car in, and I'm done. Can Hydrogen charge at home? For ~98% of the days of the year, I don't have to even go to the gas station. For long trips, I'm not sure there's really a difference between a 5-10 minute gas station stop and a 30-40 minute supercharger stop.

Doesn't seem to mention anything about recharge time, which in a transport situation Hydrogen will win 9/10. refueling with H is gonna blow battery recharge times out of the "water"

blake1 6y ago

I wouldn’t be so sure. We have experience with fast chargers, and know how fast and what it costs for EV fast charging. But how would a H2 fueling station work? Customers would have to make an extremely tight coupling, and while the compressors pressurize the customers tank. I expect that will take longer then petroleum refueling. And the cost? The bill will have to compensate the fueling station for same fairly exotic tech. We know fuel cell technology works, and it may have a really important niche. I don’t think we can assume it will be able to compete with EVs on cost and charging time.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> But how would a H2 fueling station work? The one near my home seems to work, by observing people using it (it's colocated with a gas station) pretty much just like a normal gas station. I'm sure the coupling hardware is quite special, and it might take a little longer (or not) for a similar range fuel load, but when people fuel their Mirais it's the same basic flow as with gas vehicles, pull up to the pump, hook it up, fuel, and go from a drive-in pump, not a parking space. So, it's on the same basic ballpark, UX wise, not the “well, if I was on a long trip and needed to fuel, it's okay because i’ll just time it with a meal/rest break” kind of thing that is used to justify BEV charging not being excessively inconvenient.
- WorldMaker 6y ago
  BEV charging isn't "excessively" inconvenient because you charge it like your phone: plug it in every night before you go to bed. You might not have 100% charge every morning, but that's no different from fuel, most people rarely have 100% in the tank. What is different is an ICE or a Hydrogen tank is never going to have more in it when you wake up in the morning than before you went to bed. That's a paradigm shift. (It is okay that on long trips you time a recharge with a meal/rest break, because that is the rare exception, not the week to week lifestyle.)

speedgoose 6y ago

Would you stop 15 minutes and have a cheap charging session, or 5 minutes and have an expensive one ? Hydrogen is not instant to refuel so the time difference is not too crazy.

linsomniac 6y ago

Depending on how you look at it, most of my recharging is effectively 15 seconds. Because I charge at home, it is just the time involved in pluggging the car in, and I'm done. Can Hydrogen charge at home? For ~98% of the days of the year, I don't have to even go to the gas station. For long trips, I'm not sure there's really a difference between a 5-10 minute gas station stop and a 30-40 minute supercharger stop.