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There is no safe way to do microtransactions without also forking over some kind of personal data. How do you prevent identity theft in that world? I would go a

There is no safe way to do microtransactions without also forking over some kind of personal data. How do you prevent identity theft in that world? I would go as far as to say the current Ads model is more private that a subscription or microtransaction based world. Cheap. Private. Low-friction. Pick two.

bollorior 6y ago
There isn't a technical limitation here. If in 2001 you had said that web content would be paid for by multiple auctions for advertising space between data brokers who know innumerable different facts about the reader, such as their recent browsing history, purchases, demographic info, happening in real-time while the page loads, it would have seemed technically unfeasible. $100 billion in annual revenue makes lots of things possible.
input_sh 6y ago
Sure there is: https://coil.com/ https://coil.com/ https://flattr.com/ https://flattr.com/ Pay one subscription, visit sites. If those sites have a specific meta tag, add-on detects it, providing you with access to paywalled articles. The longer the site keeps my attention, the more of my subscription they get. They don't have to know a single thing about me other than "I'm using this service and I have a running subscription". Service aggregates those micropayments from their subscribers within a time frame and avoids transferring small transactions and fees associated to the website.
- pedro2 6y ago
  Also Brave Browser. Yes, Brave has a mixed model for funding. If you don't opt in into Brave Rewards, you can still fund sites using your own money.
Nextgrid 6y ago
I'm saying that a neutral third-party could be used to broker the payments and keep the details for auditing purposes. I don't mind someone having my details, I just don't want that someone to be a party incentivized to spam me.
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  Sorry, but how is that any different than the role Google and Facebook play today? You're just proposing handing even more personal data over to what will become the next generation of big tech monopolies.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    Compared to Google & Facebook, the neutral third party's business model would be to process payments as opposed to advertising, thus they won't have any incentives to collect/misuse personal data beyond what's necessary to provide the service.
    - throwaway3699 6y ago
      I don't agree. Payment data are just as easily sold off as you seem to think advertisement data is. The incentives are the same, except one is pseudo-anonymous and the other is directly linked to your bank account.
      - Nextgrid 6y ago
        This idea's selling point is that you are not tracked nor subject to marketing. If people start having any suspicions they will stop using the system (why pay and get tracked anyway ?) and the payment processor no longer has a business, thus everyone here would have an incentive of being honest otherwise they ruin the entire business model.
        throwaway3699 6y ago
        If you view it from a game theory perspective, both the ad business (your Google's and Facebook's) are subject to the same incentives as your Flattr's. At the core of both of them is an economic transaction (direct dollars vs. ad impression), both of which use personal data like web history (to know which article has been "bought"). The big difference is the ad supported model is not linked to your bank account, and has some pseudonymous properties, but there is still the classic three-party structure of reader, publisher and platform, and still the huge pressure to be profitable. 1) So you're still having your personal web history tracked by a technology company, possibly even worse because it's linked to your bank 2) Economic pressures and incentives are roughly the same 3) End result is your data will eventually get sold anyway, much the same way that cable companies always introduced ads I also have a belief but no hard data that advertisers pay more per impression than consumers ever will, which leads to this cycle happening in the first place. People seem to forget that the internet wasn't really profitable until targeted advertising, cutting that would mean the end of most web technology companies.

bollorior 6y ago

There isn't a technical limitation here. If in 2001 you had said that web content would be paid for by multiple auctions for advertising space between data brokers who know innumerable different facts about the reader, such as their recent browsing history, purchases, demographic info, happening in real-time while the page loads, it would have seemed technically unfeasible. $100 billion in annual revenue makes lots of things possible.

input_sh 6y ago

Sure there is: https://coil.com/ https://coil.com/ https://flattr.com/ https://flattr.com/ Pay one subscription, visit sites. If those sites have a specific meta tag, add-on detects it, providing you with access to paywalled articles. The longer the site keeps my attention, the more of my subscription they get. They don't have to know a single thing about me other than "I'm using this service and I have a running subscription". Service aggregates those micropayments from their subscribers within a time frame and avoids transferring small transactions and fees associated to the website.

pedro2 6y ago
Also Brave Browser. Yes, Brave has a mixed model for funding. If you don't opt in into Brave Rewards, you can still fund sites using your own money.

Nextgrid 6y ago

I'm saying that a neutral third-party could be used to broker the payments and keep the details for auditing purposes. I don't mind someone having my details, I just don't want that someone to be a party incentivized to spam me.

throwaway3699 6y ago
Sorry, but how is that any different than the role Google and Facebook play today? You're just proposing handing even more personal data over to what will become the next generation of big tech monopolies.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  Compared to Google & Facebook, the neutral third party's business model would be to process payments as opposed to advertising, thus they won't have any incentives to collect/misuse personal data beyond what's necessary to provide the service.
  - throwaway3699 6y ago
    I don't agree. Payment data are just as easily sold off as you seem to think advertisement data is. The incentives are the same, except one is pseudo-anonymous and the other is directly linked to your bank account.
    - Nextgrid 6y ago
      This idea's selling point is that you are not tracked nor subject to marketing. If people start having any suspicions they will stop using the system (why pay and get tracked anyway ?) and the payment processor no longer has a business, thus everyone here would have an incentive of being honest otherwise they ruin the entire business model.
      - throwaway3699 6y ago
        If you view it from a game theory perspective, both the ad business (your Google's and Facebook's) are subject to the same incentives as your Flattr's. At the core of both of them is an economic transaction (direct dollars vs. ad impression), both of which use personal data like web history (to know which article has been "bought"). The big difference is the ad supported model is not linked to your bank account, and has some pseudonymous properties, but there is still the classic three-party structure of reader, publisher and platform, and still the huge pressure to be profitable. 1) So you're still having your personal web history tracked by a technology company, possibly even worse because it's linked to your bank 2) Economic pressures and incentives are roughly the same 3) End result is your data will eventually get sold anyway, much the same way that cable companies always introduced ads I also have a belief but no hard data that advertisers pay more per impression than consumers ever will, which leads to this cycle happening in the first place. People seem to forget that the internet wasn't really profitable until targeted advertising, cutting that would mean the end of most web technology companies.